Do I need a Strut Tower Bar?

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i would love to hear your opinions on fake hood scoops too and fake carbon fiber too. "engineers" have found a need for those on cars too. race cars have stickers too. stickers make cars faster? its not any different than the argument you are making right now.

wings absolutely have a larger performance advantage over strut tower bars in 2014.

I would venture to say that the styling department had more say on the fake vents, than the engineering department.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by abraxis

LoL!

Oh so much "excessive" bracing.

http://www.7tune.com/new-release-the...-toyota-14r60/

Thankfully engineers don't care about the personal opinions of internet experts. It is within your right to ignore as much data and evidence that goes against your personal beliefs as you like.

I like that rear shock tower/trunk brace.

[fatoni]

Somebody show me some science please. Shocks aren't load bearing so I don't know why they would need to be braced in the rear.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Somebody show me some science please. Shocks aren't load bearing so I don't know why they would need to be braced in the rear.

Only science I need in this case, is my ear. I can hear my rear seat latches as I drive over speed bumps, so I know the rear of the car is flexing. It's not the shocks that need bracing, but the chassis.

[fatoni]

That's not science but if it works for you, by all means.

[abraxis]

They already did. You ignored it as 'error' lol.



You also seem to have characterized every chassis brace used in racing, and the choices of competitive racers and TRD as a marketing gimmick. It should be obvious to anyone who isn't biased that when TRD or a racer decides to use a certain brace design that is NOT the same as the one they or STI actually sells to the aftermarket that should tell you it wasn't a marketing decision.

Personally I see no real reason to provide you with more information when you already ignored what was presented to you anyway. I'd think you'd just do the same. But here you go, maybe others will find it useful.

Check it out, TRD changed the stock strut bar on the Griffon with something you can't buy and install from the aftermarket. Why would they do that you suppose? Engineering and performance.



Look, no hinges, just welds and triangulated gussets.

http://www.galileo.org/tips/structures/frames.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=roll...w=1255&bih=964

See any hinges here? Nope, just welds.

Door flex? Yup.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE_xrYJ1rIo"]11' 3.8 GenCoupe R-spec on Race tire SCCA autoX Costal Empire Rd10 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8KJXfeK3Q4"]Turbo NC Miata by Moto-East at the Auto-X - Bader Field Atlantic City with SJRSCCA - YouTube[/ame]

Data?



So is the Corvette overbraced or is the 86 underbraced?







Interestingly TRD and others offer some products that can replicate the same 'overbracing' GM seems to think is beneficial from the factory in their $50k car.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

That's not science but if it works for you, by all means.

Yep, no reason to strain gage it, when it moves that much. Granted I'm on stiffer springs, and bars, so the chassis is seeing more torsional twist not too. If I could get the car on the pull down rig, I'd do some "science" on it, but it's not setup for a street car.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by abraxis

They already did. You ignored it as 'error' lol. You also seem to have characterized every chassis brace used in racing, and the choices of competitive racers and TRD as a marketing gimmick. It should be obvious to anyone who isn't biased that when TRD or a racer decides to use a certain brace design that is NOT the same as the one they or STI actually sells to the aftermarket that should tell you it wasn't a marketing decision.

Personally I see no real reason to provide you with more information when you already ignored what was presented to you anyway. I'd think you'd just do the same. But here you go, maybe others will find it useful.

Check it out, TRD changed the stock strut bar on the Griffon with something you can't buy and install from the aftermarket. Why would they do that you suppose? Engineering and performance.



Look, no hinges, just welds and triangulated gussets.

http://www.galileo.org/tips/structures/frames.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=roll...w=1255&bih=964

See any hinges here? Nope, just welds.

Door flex? Yup.

Data?



So is the Corvette overbraced or is the 86 underbraced?







Interestingly TRD and others offer some products that can replicate the same 'overbracing' GM seems to think is beneficial from the factory in their $50k car.

A stabilizer bar is not what I'm questioning. A stabilizer bar and a strut tower brace are not the same thing. That might be where your confusion comes from. I believe those work. I don't believe the gm is over braced but I think if you replaced one of those braces with a different colored brace, it's a waste of money.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by fatoni

A stabilizer bar is not what I'm questioning. A stabilizer bar and a strut tower brace are not the same thing. That might be where your confusion comes from. I believe those work. I don't believe the gm is over braced but I think if you replaced one of those braces with a different colored brace, it's a waste of money.

Those are chassis braces, not 'stabilizer bars' aka anti-sway bars. The yellow arrow is pointing at the leaf springs.

Colors have nothing to do with what we were talking about. The GM braces used in the Corvette are absent on the 86. They have no color because they aren't there.

Everything else I consider asked and answered. I see no reason to continue on about it without data or science to contradict the current evidence.

To the OP, you don't 'need' a strut tower brace. You also don't need your stabilizer bars, AC, radio, back seats, catalytic converter, spare tire, passenger seat, washer fluid reservoir or sun visors. However those things may offer you an actual noticeable benefit if they are designed properly.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by abraxis

T
See any hinges here? Nope, just welds.

If I ever suggested putting a hinge, or joint on a "bay bar", "spider bar", "strut brace", or whatever it's called on that particular race car, I would get laughed out of the design office

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Gunman

If I ever suggested putting a hinge, or joint on a "bay bar", "spider bar", "strut brace", or whatever it's called on that particular race car, I would get laughed out of the design office

Yeah I know. People would buy it though which is one reason other people end up dismissing useful products out of hand. They poison the well.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Those are chassis braces, not 'stabilizer bars' aka anti-sway bars. The yellow arrow is pointing at the leaf springs.

Colors have nothing to do with what we were talking about. The GM braces used in the Corvette are absent on the 86. They have no color because they aren't there.

Everything else I consider asked and answered. I see no reason to continue on about it without data or science to contradict the current evidence.

To the OP, you don't 'need' a strut tower brace. You also don't need your stabilizer bars, AC, radio, back seats, catalytic converter, spare tire, passenger seat, washer fluid reservoir or sun visors. However those things may offer you an actual noticeable benefit if they are designed properly.

You must have accidentally put that graph of what a sway bar does in your post then. It's hard to argue when I don't even know what car part your talking about.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by fatoni

You must have accidentally put that graph of what a sway bar does in your post then. It's hard to argue when I don't even know what car part your talking about.

Those are the TRD door stabilizers related to the video links. Updated original post.

[Yoniyama]

Ordinary, I would say that the front top brace is a must. But,

please see video of TRD Griffen project car attached:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71345

It is interesting that such an intensely modified vehicle DOES NOT have the front brace attached.

I wonder why not.