Twins vs 2015 z06

[WallsAndFoundations]

Originally Posted by Acree

No... no no no no no no. You cannot. I specifically sold my BRZ because of this reason.

2jz engine swap. End of story.

[BadBRZ]

Originally Posted by WallsAndFoundations

2jz engine swap. End of story.

The vette drive train fits in the brZ....

[WallsAndFoundations]

Originally Posted by BadBRZ

The vette drive train fits in the brZ....

Twist ending

'14 Firestorm FRS Build Thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71248

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by WallsAndFoundations

2jz engine swap. End of story.

Originally Posted by BadBRZ

The vette drive train fits in the brZ....

Still wouldn't be as good even if you stilled called it a FR-s/BRZ. Unless you just want a drift or drag car. Try driving it to the grocery store, the opera, across country or getting it by emissions in 50 states.

Give it up.

Aww, NVM just keep wearing those blinders.

[fatoni]

i think a vette drivetrain would be faster in the vette

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Still wouldn't be as good even if you stilled called it a FR-s/BRZ. Unless you just want a drift or drag car. Try driving it to the grocery store, the opera, across country or getting it by emissions in 50 states.

Give it up.

Aww, NVM just keep wearing those blinders.

You seriously sound like a total douchebag. If people want to throw a different engine in their car, so be it. No need to try and be the mod police on this board. People have their own taste and preference on how they want to setup their FR-s/BRZ. Even your sig dictates your animosity towards having mods. I think the person that needs to "give it up" is you. No one is twisting your arm to lurk in individual's build pages nor is it mandatory to respond to everyone. Like the saying goes, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

This thread keeps revolving to the same pointless debate. Talk about beating a dead horse.

[makesdrivingfunagain]

I hate those debates about modded cars coming in cheaper for equivalent performance than a normally faster stock car, but how about this....

approx MSRP for a twin: $25k
approx MSRP for a z06: $80k

Now the question is, if one was to dump $55k into a twin, would it be better than a stock z06. And yes, I'm using ''better'' on purpose... define it as you wish, quicker, more engaging, purer...


Let me qualify the statement, I think a modded 55k FR-S would be "better" in my opinion. It would be more unique and crafted to my personal, subjective,
preferences. And the key word of "better" is that it is better for me. I am not going to try to convince others of my argument... And, I am not going to bring up the smog issue, etc. I think it would be "better" as it would be less civilized and more "racey" and fun for me. Man I wish I had 55k, than I could purchase all of the cool mods I can't afford (at least for now) I think it would or can even be way "better" as it could be a lot more fun to drive. I just need to take 400-600lbs off and give it 100 or so hp. And it would be better to me, and obviously not better to others. I am not going to try to convince others, just myself...Boy did this post open a can of worms.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Atropine

Hopefully this is just a theory thread...

Only a fucking idiot would drop 55k into a Twin...

Your 28k car + the 30k you spent modding would make it worth how much? 30k tops?

If you are rich as hell...go for it.

Otherwise we will just see a thread with someone trying to sell their 60k "value" Twin...and that thread will remind us of this thread.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72254

Two years from now when you lose your job/get married/have a kid/go back to school/decide you want a boat/decide you want a different car...

You can sell your 85k Vette for 70k.

You can sell your 60k Twin for...30k tops?

If you crash this car your insurance will give you a check for 24k...

Do the 30k in mods route if you wanna dominate on Forza or Gran Turismo...otherwise save your money.

BTW 85k would probably buy you a Toyota FT-1 when it comes out.

Remove the word "Corvette" from this idea and replace it with the phrase "FT-1" and you realize how stupid this idea is.

With all that said...if you do this Twin+30k of mods idea...

I wanna see pics and a build thread!

Worrying about resale value and wanting to build a car for competition are two entirely different things. People build cars to compete. With your attitude, no one should ever mod anything and we wouldn't have any of the insane, over-the-top cars you see in World Time Attack, Pike's Peak Hill Climb, Formula Drift, etc.

Modding cheaper cars is the way to go if you are passionate about performance and really want to compete in unlimited (not stock class) types of motorsports. Look at World Time Attack. There are 25 year old Nissans and Mazdas setting records and posting times SIGNIFICANTLY faster than SUPER CARS. Is it cheap? Of course not. Is it exciting and satisfying? Hell yes!!!

Plus, the good thing about using a more affordable platform is if it gets wrecked and can't be fixed, you swap all the parts over to a new chassis and you're back in the game with minimal headache (minimal for that particular situation, anyway).

It's two totally different mindsets. There is nothing wrong with wanting to mod affordable GOOD platforms into something incredible. If anything, these people are likely more serious car enthusiasts than your rich 60 year old neighbor buying the new Corvette. They are more into the engineering. They want the satisfaction of building something special themselves.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Rampage

They may have the resources but I do not think the majority of guys that are modding twins with high boost are really doing any of the work themselves. From what I read in the boosted forum, most of them are simply writing checks and charging up credit cards for others to do the initial build and then all the maintenance and troubleshooting that comes after.

Why is it that so many in the tuner crowd (of which I consider myself a part) are always trying to make their cars into something they are not? They always want to challenge the exotics or muscle cars (which they badmouth constantly). Dollar for dollar they are never going to win the HP and torque wars against the American V8s. That is why nearly all the Pro drifters have switched to LS swaps. (just one obvious example.)

I love Honda, Mazda, Toyota and Nissan cars and have owned a bunch over the years. What I love about them is light weight, good handling and small bore sophisticated motors. In their class, they are the best in the world but when they try to move up to the heavy weight class they loose their punch and all their advantages.

I am always happy to be able to compete with or beat everyone in my class. The twins can do that. That is what makes them such a great car.

But a Z06 killer, they are not.

To be fair, American drifting (Formula D) is all about having tons of torque and mashing the gas pedal. So, for them, it makes sense to stuff the biggest engine they can get into small chassis vehicles. It's basically drag racing sideways. Real racing is not all about torque. Power and torque are important, but balance and aero are just as important. Once again, look at all of the top tier World Time Attack cars... Nearly all of them are extremely well balanced racecars with small displacement motors. Why? Because they can corner faster due to 1. Being much lighter in general and 2. Having better balance.

I don't want to make it seem like i'm downplaying the Z06. I'm not. It's awesome and looks fantastic, but don't underestimate what a highly modded affordable spots car can do on a real racetrack in real events...

[Atropine]

I have been getting a lot of post quotes with what I said on first page...the retorts are...

"I don't care about resale value"
"A vette's engine fits into a Twin"
etc etc...

Notice...I said if you are rich...FUCKING GO FOR IT.

It is a cool idea.

But MOST people who bought a twin bought it because they liked it and because its a great bang for the buck.

Dropping 30 grand into a twin...

You should have bought a Cayman S or a Vette or saved up for an FT-1.

How many built Twins will be for sale once that FT-1 comes out?

I LOVE modded cars. Just don't spend that money with any thought you will get a return on your money.

MOST heavy modders KNOW this already.

Yet we see "kickstarters" for owners who are behind on payments and have a car that is a paperweight because they trusted Toni from FA20Club to blow up...I mean "tune" their engine.

Dropping 30k into a twin...there is a really really really good chance you will be putting 10k into it yearly to keep that beast (and yes it will be a fucking awesome BEAST!) on the road.

But for most people...its a stupid idea.

And for the people who are thinking about doing it...THEY ARE NOT POSTING THREADS ASKING IF ITS A GOOD IDEA.

Its like those stupid threads "will a Viper engine fit in an XXXXX" The answer is...if you have to ask...you don't have the skill to do it anyway.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Atropine

I have been getting a lot of post quotes with what I said on first page...the retorts are...

"I don't care about resale value"
"A vette's engine fits into a Twin"
etc etc...

Notice...I said if you are rich...FUCKING GO FOR IT.

It is a cool idea.

But MOST people who bought a twin bought it because they liked it and because its a great bang for the buck.

Dropping 30 grand into a twin...

You should have bought a Cayman S or a Vette or saved up for an FT-1.

How many built Twins will be for sale once that FT-1 comes out?

I LOVE modded cars. Just don't spend that money with any thought you will get a return on your money.

MOST heavy modders KNOW this already.

Yet we see "kickstarters" for owners who are behind on payments and have a car that is a paperweight because they trusted Toni from FA20Club to blow up...I mean "tune" their engine.

Dropping 30k into a twin...there is a really really really good chance you will be putting 10k into it yearly to keep that beast (and yes it will be a fucking awesome BEAST!) on the road.

But for most people...its a stupid idea.

And for the people who are thinking about doing it...THEY ARE NOT POSTING THREADS ASKING IF ITS A GOOD IDEA.

Its like those stupid threads "will a Viper engine fit in an XXXXX" The answer is...if you have to ask...you don't have the skill to do it anyway.

It really all depends on what you want. Some people take pride in the fact that they built something that kicks the ass of much more expensive cars with their own ideas and combination of carefully selected parts. To them, that car is "better" than the more expensive, more prestigious car, because it performs better and because they had a strong role in its creation. Other people just want an expensive car to drive around their city on the weekend to show others what they were able to afford and feel self-important.

Not many people can afford to go out and buy an $80k car at all, let alone go out and buy an $80k car and drive it hard ON A TRACK, which is really the only place you will be able to make use of that car's performance. It's just not smart. Even if you do have that money, wouldn't you be better served picking a cheaper car that you can afford to replace if you accidentally destroy it? You could recover most of the parts off of it and wouldn't have to completely start over from scratch. With modding, you always have the option of reselling parts. You always have the option of stopping at any point along the way.... but you can also continue to keep adding/replacing parts and refining the car over time. You don't need to throw down a huge sum of money all at once or put yourself in debt for years to come.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

It really all depends on what you want. Some people take pride in the fact that they built something that kicks the ass of much more expensive cars with their own ideas and combination of carefully selected parts. To them, that car is "better" than the more expensive, more prestigious car, because it performs better and because they had a strong role in its creation. Other people just want an expensive car to drive around their city on the weekend to show others what they were able to afford and feel self-important.

Not many people can afford to go out and buy an $80k car at all, let alone go out and buy an $80k car and drive it hard ON A TRACK, which is really the only place you will be able to make use of that car's performance. It's just not smart. Even if you do have that money, wouldn't you be better served picking a cheaper car that you can afford to replace if you accidentally destroy it? You could recover most of the parts off of it and wouldn't have to completely start over from scratch. With modding, you always have the option of reselling parts. You always have the option of stopping at any point along the way.... but you can also continue to keep adding/replacing parts and refining the car over time. You don't need to throw down a huge sum of money all at once or put yourself in debt for years to come.

You can buy track insurance...

Your insurance company will cut you a check for the price of a Porsche 911, Vette etc etc.

Your insurance company will also cut you a check for your BRZ...even if you put 30k extra into it. I suppose you can get that special insurance that takes into account customized parts, but that is really expensive (as is Track insurance as well though)

[EAGLE5]

FR-S 25k
LS9 21k
Magnum XL Transmission 5k
Wheels and Tires 5k
Rocket Bunny 5k
Suspension 5k+
Brakes 5k
Axle/Drive shaft/differential 7k
Exhaust 2k
Cooling 2k
Bracing 1k

83k and then you get to install it all. 9k?
And then you get to troubleshoot. 3k?
And that's if it all goes reasonably well.

Oh, sure, you can go with a used engine and transmission. Supercharge it yourself. You can also get a used Corvette, so that's a wash. You'll be special, fo sho, but you'll be out of a lot of money.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

FR-S 25k
LS9 21k
Magnum XL Transmission 5k
Wheels and Tires 5k
Rocket Bunny 5k
Suspension 5k+
Brakes 5k
Axle/Drive shaft/differential 7k
Exhaust 2k
Cooling 2k
Bracing 1k

83k and then you get to install it all. 9k?
And then you get to troubleshoot. 3k?
And that's if it all goes reasonably well.

Oh, sure, you can go with a used engine and transmission. Supercharge it yourself. You can also get a used Corvette, so that's a wash. You'll be special, fo sho, but you'll be out of a lot of money.

Dude you are soo far off on your pricing I wouldn't even know where to begin...lol...

Jaden