If all else was equal, would you buy an electric?

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

All depends on the energy required to produce the stuff. That's where ethanol falls on its face.

This is very true. Almost all of the corn produced in the U.S. is destined for making ethanol, not for food. The amount of energy invested in growing the corn, harvesting it, processing it and fermenting it greatly exceeds its net energy output as a fuel. You could of course make ethanol from other organics (switch grass is often mentioned as a source for fermentation), but the cost is even higher at present for those types of fuels.

We own a hybrid Ford C-Max that my wife drives most of the time. It is a very good and reliable car. I would not own an all electric yet for the reasons listed, mainly getting stuck in the middle of nowhere without any way to charge. On the plus side, an electric car ought to be as simple as dirt. Four electric motors, a big-ass battery, and a way to regulate power use. So mechanically, they ought to be more reliable with fewer parts involved. No cooling system for starters. For that matter, no starting system for starters. You don't even need a transmission!

If every gas station eventually has a charging station too, then the problem goes away.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Was gonna make a joke about sodium and hydrogen but then I thought NaH.

Sixteen sodium atoms walk into a bar, followed by Batman.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by babydriver

Sixteen sodium atoms walk into a bar, followed by Batman.

WOW we used two of the most overused chemistry jokes ever in a row!

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

WOW we used two of the most overused chemistry jokes ever in a row!

It was a team effort.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

WOW we used two of the most overused chemistry jokes ever in a row!

Originally Posted by babydriver

It was a team effort.

10/10 would read again.

[Ultramaroon]

Never trust atoms. They make up everything.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by babydriver

It was a team effort.

Well as a team for chemistry joke were are barely just oxygen and potassium.

[G-awesome]

i wanna tesla p85d....because....insane mode.

[HunterGreene]

A Uranium atom walks into a bar, sees a bunch of neutrons running around, and splits.

[babydriver]

Back on topic temporarily:


One sort of disincentive to gas stations providing charging stations is that they can't be all that profitable. It costs less than two bucks to charge an electric car battery, which is great for the consumer but not so much for the merchant. if they are obliged to purchase an expensive rapid charge unit then there is probably no profit at all. Also, as electric cars become more common, it will be necessary to have more than one charging station at each "gas" station.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by babydriver

Back on topic temporarily:


One sort of disincentive to gas stations providing charging stations is that they can't be all that profitable. It costs less than two bucks to charge an electric car battery, which is great for the consumer but not so much for the merchant. if they are obliged to purchase an expensive rapid charge unit then there is probably no profit at all. Also, as electric cars become more common, it will be necessary to have more than one charging station at each "gas" station.

I have heard it before that the majority of profits at the majority of gas stations is not from the pumps, but from the on-site convenience store, car wash, etc. Most of the time there are just a couple cents added by the gas station to the per gallon cost. If this is still the case, having "E-pumps" on site, while more expensive, probably wouldn't be that cost-prohibitive for some of the larger service stations.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by jebuwh

The model s is epic. The roadster is even more fun. Especially with the new battery pack coming out... 400 mile range!!!

They are just plain fun to drive. I would love to have a model x daily driver and my twin for the weekends.

Problem is that let's say that you do a 300 mi (one way distance) trip... you aren't stopping for only 5 minutes and good luck finding a Tesla Supercharger station where it'll ONLY take an hour.

EV only works if your overnight end-location is within the range, you stick to optimal speeds to get said range (bye bye good highway speeds, as the range quoted assumes max cruise speed of 55 mph and range decreases greatly if you cruise on lots of uphills, or cruise at normal highway speeds, say 75-85 mph), and end-location has charging ability with the charging speed that'll allow you to fill a mostly drained battery in 6-8 hours. From a standard 110v outlet, you won't be able to charge up the 400mi range battery in that amount of time.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by babydriver

One sort of disincentive to gas stations providing charging stations is that they can't be all that profitable. It costs less than two bucks to charge an electric car battery, which is great for the consumer but not so much for the merchant. if they are obliged to purchase an expensive rapid charge unit then there is probably no profit at all. Also, as electric cars become more common, it will be necessary to have more than one charging station at each "gas" station.

I seriously doubt you would just get charged for the electricity. I figure a fill-up would be similar to filling up the tank on a gas vehicle, they would charge you some equivalent of buying fuel (maybe a per minute charging rate equal to the price of the equivalent liquid fuel flow for that percentage of a tank?).

If there is a profit to be had, someone will figure it out. The problem is there isn't one yet because the volume is too low and the charging takes too long.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I seriously doubt you would just get charged for the electricity. I figure a fill-up would be similar to filling up the tank on a gas vehicle, they would charge you some equivalent of buying fuel (maybe a per minute charging rate equal to the price of the equivalent liquid fuel flow for that percentage of a tank?).

If there is a profit to be had, someone will figure it out. The problem is there isn't one yet because the volume is too low and the charging takes too long.

Exactly. Now, when charging capacity gets so huge that one can go a week between chargings (like most folks do with gas), then a once a day charging session will only take a few minutes like filling up a gas tank does. But if you do some hard driving on a track and such, say, then you'll still only get a few runs in before you either have to swap out the battery packs (and in a tesla these are about 1500 lbs and are what give it such a low CoG, so it'd be like pulling an engine in complexity and difficulty), or wait hours while the car charges but everyone else gets runs in.

That's the major kill factor in EVs, I think: recharging cannot be done quickly. It simply cannot without massively dangerous amps (divide Amp-hour capacity of battery by the charging source's output amperage rating to get the from-drained charge time) that no sane person would want to be casually handling at a charging station. That, OR easily swapped out battery packs like we currently do with battery-powered hobby helicopters and airplanes. Problem there is size & weight.

And that's where combustion-powered engines have the advantage. Refueling times are short and it's very easy to do. You don't have to swap out the gas tank to quickly refuel, or wait for fuel to condense from a heavy vapor at source to liquid in the tank and fill up that way (best analogy I could think of to charging a battery), etc.

Amps at charge source is the functional equivalent of fuel flow rate from the pump. With a high amp source, you have the VERY dangerous possibility of arcing and electrocution. You have a much lower risk by orders of magnitude of having a spark ignite fuel vapors and catch the car on fire with petroleum fuel unless you're very careless. Whereas with a high amp electric source, it's very easy unless you're well trained and extremely careful in your precautions, prep, and procedure to kill yourself or cause a very dangerous arc.

Only way to mitigate that danger is to have a lower amp output, such as what Tesla supercharger stations currently have, and settle for waiting an hour or two while your hybrids and economy cars get the same range till needing to fuel up and are back on the road in 5-10 minutes (and only that long b/c of folks taking bathroom breaks) while you're sitting there for hours.