How fast is the GT86 on track?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Was this supposed to be a track build? >.<

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'll take that challenge.

How would you build a FRS for a total 50k budget? I'll give you an advantage by showing you how I'd build a s2k for 50k for mixed use.

$25k - Pristine example S2000, 2006+
$2k - LSD
$4k - Coilovers
$6k - Supercharger
$400 - Injectors
$200 - Fuel pump
$800 - Diffuser
$600 - Front lip
$3.2k - Forged wheels
$600 - Tires
$1500 - Sperical Bushings
$2200 - BBK
$2000 - bucket seats and rails
$1000 - geometry correction
$300 - Alignment + corner balance
$200 - Fluid changes
$100 - Valve adjustment

49.7k total, prices include installations

That would yield me:

~1.15G cornering on a flat surface
~500 horsepower, with a cat, on a stock exhaust
- basic aero for high speed stability

The challenge was for a new RWD coupe off the lot. The s2000 is a convertible and can't even really be called a coupe...

But I would allow for an s2000 new off the lot. Now, since they aren't made anymore. I would let you count the new price the last year you could buy, OR we can reduce the total amount to work with to $30K and both buy used...

Jaden

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

Is the FR-S your first performance car? Curious of what cars you had/driven in the past. Pretty bold in saying the FR-S will trash anything less than 50k.

I said a new FRS off the lot, versus another new off the lot RWD coupe with a total of 50K put into it too...

My first performance car HAHAAHa that's funny...

Jaden

I'm also not talking about PAYING A shop to do the work... If you have to or want to that's fine... but elbow grease goes a long way...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

The challenge was for a new RWD coupe off the lot. The s2000 is a convertible and can't even really be called a coupe...

But I would allow for an s2000 new off the lot. Now, since they aren't made anymore. I would let you count the new price the last year you could buy, OR we can reduce the total amount to work with to $30K and both buy used...

Jaden

25k was a realistic purchase price on a 08 CR in 2008/2009...

If we're comparing new cars, I can think of a LOT of cars under 40k that will wipe the floor with the FRS around a track and on the street

Camaro
Mustang
370Z
BMW 220/420
Genesis Coupe

Basically... every coupe under 40k. You don't buy a FRS for its performance... you buy it for the driving experience. It's not competitive for the price, but when you start modding, the lightweight nature shows.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

25k was a realistic purchase price on a 08 CR in 2008/2009...

If we're comparing new cars, I can think of a LOT of cars under 40k that will wipe the floor with the FRS around a track and on the street

Camaro
Mustang
370Z
BMW 220/420
Genesis Coupe

Basically... every coupe under 40k. You don't buy a FRS for its performance... you buy it for the driving experience. It's not competitive for the price, but when you start modding, the lightweight nature shows.

The comment had nothing to do with stock for stock...

It had to do with new car dollars to dollars on a relatively limited budget.

There's no way in hell that with 40K or 50K total to spend on a new RWD coupe that ANY of those cars are gonna trash on a twin with the same amount of money put in...

The less total budget you have, the greater the disparity...

Let's say 35K, what then...

35K in an FRS versus any of those other cars new with a total of 35K to spend on them, and you're still gonna claim the others' supremacy???? come on...

Jaden

[Jaden]

The only reasons I could see someone with a higher performance goal purchasing one of those cars over an FRS is

1) They can afford to finance the more expensive car but can't afford the after market upgrades cash out of pocket.

2) they don't want to void their cars warranty and don't have the skills or the knowledge to trust that what they add on to the car is right or is going to work reliably.

3) Their real goal isn't performance or personal performance modification and they just want to look good and don't like the idea of not being faster than most cars for even as long as it takes to get the twin up to speed.

Jaden

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by Jaden

35K in an FRS versus any of those other cars new with a total of 35K to spend on them, and you're still gonna claim the others' supremacy???? come on...

Jaden

Yes. You can easily buy a 2014 V6 305HP Mustang for $20K and hop it up with the remaining 15K budget and kill a hopped up FT86. Would you like it as much? Dunno; I wouldn't.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Yes. You can easily buy a 2014 V6 305HP Mustang for $20K and hop it up with the remaining 15K budget and kill a hopped up FT86. Would you like it as much? Dunno; I wouldn't.

You can be getting 300-400hp with a turbo kit and some TRD springs on an FRS and remove 200 more lbs with some deletes etc.. on the FRS... that's only putting you at a little over $30K...

The v6 mustang is gonna weigh at least 3400lbs(IF you can get rid of 200lbs)... you could reasonably get 420-500 hp with a S/C or turbo charger, that's gonna put you right at $30K

5K more in mods ain't gonna get the handling there and the 20-100 hp more wouldn't get it there even in a straight line.

If we up the budget to 40K or 50K you're looking at weight reduction down to 2300 lbs and coilovers, etc... on the frs...

Now when I look at this, I'm not talking about running 20 lbs of boost or 200 shots of nitrous.

I look at what can reasonably and safely be done on pump gas ALL the time.

that means, no electric S/C's, no nitrous, etc...

Given 40 or 50K budget, it's reasonable that a new short block with slightly lower compression and stronger internals could be used on the twin, safely allowing for 14-19 psi boost upping the HP into the high400's or even 5-600 hp range.

So I don't see how this is even a question. RWD with light weight, with low introduction price, makes the twins awesome goodness for tuners...

Jaden

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Jaden

You can be getting 300-400hp with a turbo kit and some TRD springs on an FRS and remove 200 more lbs with some deletes etc.. on the FRS... that's only putting you at a little over $30K...

The v6 mustang is gonna weigh at least 3400lbs(IF you can get rid of 200lbs)... you could reasonably get 420-500 hp with a S/C or turbo charger, that's gonna put you right at $30K

5K more in mods ain't gonna get the handling there and the 20-100 hp more wouldn't get it there even in a straight line.

If we up the budget to 40K or 50K you're looking at weight reduction down to 2300 lbs and coilovers, etc... on the frs...

Now when I look at this, I'm not talking about running 20 lbs of boost or 200 shots of nitrous.

I look at what can reasonably and safely be done on pump gas ALL the time.

that means, no electric S/C's, no nitrous, etc...

Given 40 or 50K budget, it's reasonable that a new short block with slightly lower compression and stronger internals could be used on the twin, safely allowing for 14-19 psi boost upping the HP into the high400's or even 5-600 hp range.

So I don't see how this is even a question. RWD with light weight, with low introduction price, makes the twins awesome goodness for tuners...

Jaden

Can you describe your experiences with every single platform that has been mentioned thus far? We're not talking about theoreticals; we're talking about real life data, experiences, and facts. Magazine articles and specification numbers only tell you a small story. You need to drive every single platform back to back to really understand the beauty between each platform. The design intent is important. The project scope for every single car is different. That is how you approach tuning.

[iLuveKetchup]

Is your car manual?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

The only reasons I could see someone with a higher performance goal purchasing one of those cars over an FRS is

1) They can afford to finance the more expensive car but can't afford the after market upgrades cash out of pocket.

2) they don't want to void their cars warranty and don't have the skills or the knowledge to trust that what they add on to the car is right or is going to work reliably.

3) Their real goal isn't performance or personal performance modification and they just want to look good and don't like the idea of not being faster than most cars for even as long as it takes to get the twin up to speed.

Jaden

I used to have this exact same mentality, until I started getting the opportunity to drive these expensive cars. Then I understood they're so expensive. I still wouldn't buy one, but the cost difference is absolutely justified.

Can you make a FRS faster around a race track than a Ferrari for less money? Absolutely. I'd still take the ferrari if I were given a choice to have one.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

The comment had nothing to do with stock for stock...

It had to do with new car dollars to dollars on a relatively limited budget.

There's no way in hell that with 40K or 50K total to spend on a new RWD coupe that ANY of those cars are gonna trash on a twin with the same amount of money put in...

The less total budget you have, the greater the disparity...

Let's say 35K, what then...

35K in an FRS versus any of those other cars new with a total of 35K to spend on them, and you're still gonna claim the others' supremacy???? come on...

Jaden

2013 Mustang Boss 302

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

You can be getting 300-400hp with a turbo kit and some TRD springs on an FRS and remove 200 more lbs with some deletes etc.. on the FRS... that's only putting you at a little over $30K...

The v6 mustang is gonna weigh at least 3400lbs(IF you can get rid of 200lbs)... you could reasonably get 420-500 hp with a S/C or turbo charger, that's gonna put you right at $30K

5K more in mods ain't gonna get the handling there and the 20-100 hp more wouldn't get it there even in a straight line.

If we up the budget to 40K or 50K you're looking at weight reduction down to 2300 lbs and coilovers, etc... on the frs...

Now when I look at this, I'm not talking about running 20 lbs of boost or 200 shots of nitrous.

I look at what can reasonably and safely be done on pump gas ALL the time.

that means, no electric S/C's, no nitrous, etc...

Given 40 or 50K budget, it's reasonable that a new short block with slightly lower compression and stronger internals could be used on the twin, safely allowing for 14-19 psi boost upping the HP into the high400's or even 5-600 hp range.

So I don't see how this is even a question. RWD with light weight, with low introduction price, makes the twins awesome goodness for tuners...

Jaden

This post makes it starkly clear that you've never actually built a car with the theoreticals you listed above, or have driven the car hard (not what you think is hard, but what I think is hard).

Losing 200 lbs in this car while keeping it refined and streetable is not easy. It's very easy in a porky mustang. The Cost of the TC/SC easily covers the cost of getting a V8 in the mustang.

I'd love to see how you can get a 2300lb FRS. Please, make me a list of everything you'd take out, and the approximate weight of those parts, because that'll definitely help us in reducing the weight of the shop car.



How would you keep a 400hp FRS cool?

[Model Citizen]

weight reduction is easy