How fast is the GT86 on track?

[ZionsWrath]

The best part is actually that it is a coupe with space inside for track tools.

IMO anyway

[Element Tuning]

I want to post a couple of old videos from VIR (they have telemetry) to illustrate the difference between a "momentum" car and a point and shoot car. Kuno Wittmer is in the 640 whp Viper and I'm in my STi running maybe 550 whp

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FipoBNFzLf0"]Race-Keeper video: Element Tuning WRX-STI at the UTCC - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHpNgYL-Q94"]Dodge Viper ACR-X: In-Car Video Ultimate Track Car Challenge - YouTube[/ame]

What you're mainly going to see compared to say a Miata or NA FRS lap is how we dive to the inside of turn 1, square it up, get straight and drag race to turn 3, brake straight, turn sharp and drag race again. You'll see the same heading into Oak tree (diving to the inside), and then the same at the end of the back straight.

Now to understand why, the best advice I ever got was, "spend more time going straight, and less time turning because by creating more straights you will be going fast longer and you will spend less time going slow." Now why I posted these videos is so you can understand how fast we are going into the breaking zones. You are taking 110+ mph into 3 at VIR where a FRS might hit 80? So an FRS only needs to slow 10-20 mph to take turn so it can take a nice arc into the corner where a car going 110 mph needs to slow 30-40 mph. You are covering way more real estate per second going 110 mph vs. 80 mph so if you can spend .5 more seconds going straight it's massively beneficial. If we take a longer route and spend more time slowing to take the "momentum" line we will loose time. This is because you can't brake as hard when you are not going straight! Also on a low power car you don't have excessive HP to accelerate if you slow too much by taking a sharper line like you do in a high HP car.

Ok and now a TTE Miata lap with telemetry.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbuapLzo490"]TTE Miata @ VIR Full - YouTube[/ame]

So there really are multiple "fastest" lines on a track depending on the car you are driving

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Model Citizen

Now thats just manipulating and twisting a question to be a ****.

Age gap on s2k and frz isn't so big that theres been massive leaps in technology like a 30 year old italian exotic.

And both are nothing more than japanese cars, no marquee name plates to jack up the price. Just bang for the buck.

My point was, stock for stock, the s2k should be better, and it is. Using the frs for comparison since its performance per $ being compared the s2k has nearly a 10k premium, and it justifies that gap.

Would anyone here argue that out of the box the s2k didn't come with more power, better balance, better suspension, more reliability and better tires?

It was able to be built to a higher level because the higher price allowed for less corners to be cut (and lol boxer). Start throwing in mods and the price comparison becomes irrelevant, but stock for stock the s2k was a better, albeit nearly 50% more expensive car.

Take 40K and ANY RWD coupe available off the lot and I'll take 40K and start with an FRS... and we'll see who's performs better.

anyone who says there is no comparison is right... dollar for dollar the frs will trash anything spending less than 50K...

If you want a super car off the lot, then save up...If you want a super car on a budget, you're better off starting with an frs...

Jaden

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Model Citizen

Now thats just manipulating and twisting a question to be a ****.

Originally Posted by Model Citizen

It was able to be built to a higher level because the higher price allowed for less corners to be cut (and lol boxer). Start throwing in mods and the price comparison becomes irrelevant, but stock for stock the s2k was a better, albeit nearly 50% more expensive car.

This...

[Food]

I'm looking right now...there a lot of cheap s2ks for 10-17k; but all around 100k miles.

There's also a lot of low mileage ones surprisingly at 20k-80k miles, wow (that's even lower miles than a lot of new FTs have lol)...and their prices aren't too bad at 18-22k. Similar mileage at similar prices as Twins with similar miles/prices.

But then I look more at it....yes it's nice..yes that high revving NA engine is something I would love (I miss my old EG)....but dang...idk if I can live with a convertible "roadster" lol. Too girly for me ;D

I'll stick with my plan ...save for and get an FT in the near future

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Take 40K and ANY RWD coupe available off the lot and I'll take 40K and start with an FRS... and we'll see who's performs better.

anyone who says there is no comparison is right... dollar for dollar the frs will trash anything spending less than 50K...

If you want a super car off the lot, then save up...If you want a super car on a budget, you're better off starting with an frs...

Jaden

I'll take that challenge.

How would you build a FRS for a total 50k budget? I'll give you an advantage by showing you how I'd build a s2k for 50k for mixed use.

$25k - Pristine example S2000, 2006+
$2k - LSD
$4k - Coilovers
$6k - Supercharger
$400 - Injectors
$200 - Fuel pump
$800 - Diffuser
$600 - Front lip
$3.2k - Forged wheels
$600 - Tires
$1500 - Sperical Bushings
$2200 - BBK
$2000 - bucket seats and rails
$1000 - geometry correction
$300 - Alignment + corner balance
$200 - Fluid changes
$100 - Valve adjustment

49.7k total, prices include installations

That would yield me:

~1.15G cornering on a flat surface
~500 horsepower, with a cat, on a stock exhaust
- basic aero for high speed stability

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'll take that challenge.

How would you build a FRS for a total 50k budget? I'll give you an advantage by showing you how I'd build a s2k for 50k for mixed use.

$25k - Pristine example S2000, 2006+
$2k - LSD
$4k - Coilovers
$6k - Supercharger
$400 - Injectors
$200 - Fuel pump
$800 - Diffuser
$600 - Front lip
$3.2k - Forged wheels
$600 - Tires
$1500 - Sperical Bushings
$2200 - BBK
$2000 - bucket seats and rails
$1000 - geometry correction
$300 - Alignment + corner balance
$200 - Fluid changes
$100 - Valve adjustment

49.7k total, prices include installations

That would yield me:

~1.15G cornering on a flat surface
~500 horsepower, with a cat, on a stock exhaust
- basic aero for high speed stability

s2k is not a coupe mike. but thanks for giving the build

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

s2k is not a coupe mike. but thanks for giving the build

Replace S2000 with 370Z. Replace BBK with Cooling. Otherwise keep the build the same, except now I'm making ~650hp.

[tahdizzle]

Mike said it himself. 370z >*

lil Edit:

This is all # racing. 370z is a great vehicle, anyone who says otherwise is dillusional. Do I personally feel that a a 650 hp 370z will outperform a 500 hp twin on the track, No. But thats all subjective because as of yet, there has been no real world comparison.

So eh.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Take 40K and ANY RWD coupe available off the lot and I'll take 40K and start with an FRS... and we'll see who's performs better.

anyone who says there is no comparison is right... dollar for dollar the frs will trash anything spending less than 50K...

If you want a super car off the lot, then save up...If you want a super car on a budget, you're better off starting with an frs...

Jaden

Is the FR-S your first performance car? Curious of what cars you had/driven in the past. Pretty bold in saying the FR-S will trash anything less than 50k.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Mike said it himself. 370z >*

It's a damn good car for the money. Great balance between sheer muscle and handling.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Replace S2000 with 370Z. Replace BBK with Cooling. Otherwise keep the build the same, except now I'm making ~650hp.

I'd think you'd need a real oil cooler and a modified fuel tank for that build, especially with that level of grip and horsepower.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'd think you'd need a real oil cooler and a modified fuel tank for that build, especially with that level of grip and horsepower.

Was this supposed to be a track build? >.<

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'd think you'd need a real oil cooler and a modified fuel tank for that build, especially with that level of grip and horsepower.