Best Slicks / Race Tires for the Money

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by glamcem

local "Discount Tire" stores generally price match the online stores and you get free mounting and balance since you purchase from them so that you save another $100 on the total cost

Good to know. I don't use shops like that and don't know anyone that does (for track rubber, that is). Sounds like a buyer would save the shipping cost, too(?) - that's $75 from PT to the Northeast for a set of 215/45-17 NT01s.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Good to know. I don't use shops like that and don't know anyone that does (for track rubber, that is). Sounds like a buyer would save the shipping cost, too(?) - that's $75 from PT to the Northeast for a set of 215/45-17 NT01s.

I've recently learned that the Discount Tire stores have the best machines/methods for tire balance services so that's what I used for the last couple times.. I personally wouldn't go anything less than 225/45/17 since I would like to run a bit wider tires to get the most out of the tire upgrade..what kind of wheels are you planning to run them with? for an NA car I think 9" wheels and 235/40/17 is a great combo IMO since the overall diameter even smaller than 225/45/17 and running slightly wider wheels will give you stiffer side walls and more mechanical grip ..However, since I am FI now I will most likely go with something wider like 255/40/17 on my next set

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'd actually suggest you try a 225 RS3. A wider tire has severely diminishing returns. You'll have less ultimate grip, but make up time accelerating.

Or, try a 215 NT01.

it also depends on the track too, right Mike?

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I've recently learned that the Discount Tire stores have the best machines/methods for tire balance services so that's what I used for the last couple times.. I personally wouldn't go anything less than 225/45/17 since I would like to run a bit wider tires to get the most out of the tire upgrade..what kind of wheels are you planning to run them with? for an NA car I think 9" wheels and 235/40/17 is a great combo IMO since the overall diameter even smaller than 225/45/17 and running slightly wider wheels will give you stiffer side walls and more mechanical grip ..However, since I am FI now I will most likely go with something wider like 255/40/17 on my next set

Well, if I do buy a twin, I'll likely run 215 or possibly 225 NT01s on a lightweight 8" wheel.

To make class, on my 2893# / 318 RWHP NASA TT3 car I run 235s on 9" wheels, and they're only marginally slower than the 245s I normally run. Performance-wise, I have the general feeling that 235s are too much tire for a twin with OEM power.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Good to know. I don't use shops like that and don't know anyone that does (for track rubber, that is). Sounds like a buyer would save the shipping cost, too(?) - that's $75 from PT to the Northeast for a set of 215/45-17 NT01s.

Most tire stores can order any tire with advance notice and a deposit. It's always good to build a relationship with a few, particularly if you go through a lot of tires, since they can help you out in a pinch.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

it also depends on the track too, right Mike?

It does, but unless the track is all turns, the smaller tire is still faster.

I only have *one* example where a 255 is faster than a 225, and it's one specific track in one specific direction. The 225 is universally faster than a 255 everywhere else. This one track is, literally, all turns that even the FRS can't take WOT, and the major straight is downhill, mitigating most of the power loss. This applied to our testing with FI as well... at least at the power levels that the locals are at.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Well, if I do buy a twin, I'll likely run 215 or possibly 225 NT01s on a lightweight 8" wheel.

To make class, on my 2893# / 318 RWHP NASA TT3 car I run 235s on 9" wheels, and they're only marginally slower than the 245s I normally run. Performance-wise, I have the general feeling that 235s are too much tire for a twin with OEM power.

I've never personally run my BRZ with a street tire or something smaller than 235s (even with NA power) so I cannot compare but my friend cut his times drastically with a wider tire in his bone stock Miata (215 vs 235) so I am not sure ..

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It does, but unless the track is all turns, the smaller tire is still faster.

I only have *one* example where a 255 is faster than a 225, and it's one specific track in one specific direction. The 225 is universally faster than a 255 everywhere else. This one track is, literally, all turns that even the FRS can't take WOT, and the major straight is downhill, mitigating most of the power loss. This applied to our testing with FI as well... at least at the power levels that the locals are at.

very interesting Mike, I know a 255 (unless an Auto-X ) would be a major overkill for NA car but I would never expect a 225 to be faster for an FI, unless it was on Daytona or something

I think 235/40/17 might be an exception because it has slightly smaller in overall diameter (even smaller than OEM 24.4 " vs 24.7") so I thought it might be the sweet spot for NA cars the majority of the tracks.. but with FI, I beg to have more grip in some corners with the added power and would like to try the 255s next time and a bit longer gears would help as in some corners, it feels like I don't have the correct gearing ..

I am sure you saw this but in this test even with the bigger 18" wheels (heavier and bigger overall diameter), car was slightly slower than lighter and smaller OEM size tires but provided a lot more lateral grip and slalom speed

http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roada...1e841088f1.pdf

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

very interesting Mike, I know a 255 (unless an Auto-X ) would be a major overkill for NA car but I would never expect a 225 to be faster for an FI, unless it was on Daytona or something

I think 235/40/17 might be an exception because it has slightly smaller in overall diameter (even smaller than OEM 24.4 " vs 24.7") so I thought it might be the sweet spot for NA cars the majority of the tracks.. but with FI, I beg to have more grip in some corners with the added power and would like to try the 255s next time and a bit longer gears would help as in some corners, it feels like I don't have the correct gearing ..

I am sure you saw this but in this test even with the bigger 18" wheels (heavier and bigger overall diameter), car was slightly slower than lighter and smaller OEM size tires but provided a lot more lateral grip and slalom speed

http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roada...1e841088f1.pdf

Some 235 is available in a 235/45/17....

Generally, for the tracks in Socal, the gearing change is so minimal that it makes no difference.

The 235 RC1 was definitely quick in corners, but the straightline losses wiped out some of the cornering gains.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Some 235 is available in a 235/45/17....

Generally, for the tracks in Socal, the gearing change is so minimal that it makes no difference.

The 235 RC1 was definitely quick in corners, but the straightline losses wiped out some of the cornering gains.

and I bet the extreme heat also has its contribution on the performance issues , I cracked my OEM header once the temps passed 90s and don't want to think about close to 100 degrees with 91 octane, yikes!!.. you guys are really stress test many of those setups there haha


oh and I saw some videos of the Buttonwillow and that track looks more like a rally course than a road course

[rice_classic]

Heat. A lot of this has to do with heat.

The drag penalty of rolling resistance and aero from wider tires isn't as significant on cars with 200+hp, especially on cars with FI. With low HP cars (spec miata, my CRX etc), it can be a bigger deal especially with longer straights.

Another area where going wider doesn't really help on a road course is if your wheel width limited (like I'm limited 7" wide wheels) and thus a wider tire may not be using any more contact patch due to increased lateral rolling of the tire. Secondly, heat is extremely important in the functionality of the tire. If you cannot maintain a certain temp (like >180F) there's a good chance the wider tire isn't an improvement.

I've just been through this in my last 6 races. I went from 205 RR to 225 RRs and both weekends were very cool days (under 65, some rain) and I couldn't get the 225's hotter than 150F on the front of my FWD car. On both weekends my fast time of the weekend was on my 25+ heat cycle 205's. Why? Heat. I put 20F more temp in 205's. The difference in track times: 0.5 - 1.0 second.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Heat. A lot of this has to do with heat.

The drag penalty of rolling resistance and aero from wider tires isn't as significant on cars with 200+hp, especially on cars with FI. With low HP cars (spec miata, my CRX etc), it can be a bigger deal especially with longer straights.

Another area where going wider doesn't really help on a road course is if your wheel width limited (like I'm limited 7" wide wheels) and thus a wider tire may not be using any more contact patch due to increased lateral rolling of the tire. Secondly, heat is extremely important in the functionality of the tire. If you cannot maintain a certain temp (like >180F) there's a good chance the wider tire isn't an improvement.

I've just been through this in my last 6 races. I went from 205 RR to 225 RRs and both weekends were very cool days (under 65, some rain) and I couldn't get the 225's hotter than 150F on the front of my FWD car. On both weekends my fast time of the weekend was on my 25+ heat cycle 205's. Why? Heat. I put 20F more temp in 205's. The difference in track times: 0.5 - 1.0 second.

good point and that's the part of the reason why I want to try 255s next time, in my experience it's the complete opposite I mean the excess heat is the issue not the lack of heat think because of the weight, power and the times I attend the events (mostly afternoon sessions) or combination of them, after 5-6 laps my tires feel greasy so I might be overheating the tires a bit, l..especially at ORP, I noticed the cars wear tires really quickly ..so I figured I can benefit from wider tires in both longevity and consistency as well as more grip surface area,

like Mike suggested I will get a pryometer to see what kind of temps I am seeing after fast sessions

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

and I bet the extreme heat also has its contribution on the performance issues , I cracked my OEM header once the temps passed 90s and don't want to think about close to 100 degrees with 91 octane, yikes!!.. you guys are really stress test many of those setups there haha


oh and I saw some videos of the Buttonwillow and that track looks more like a rally course than a road course

It REALLY shows the differences between good and bad dampers :p

I was always curious about the AJR BRZ's weight, as the rear end was stripped out at SLB when Rob ran that lap. Thing was moving!

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It REALLY shows the differences between good and bad dampers :p

I was always curious about the AJR BRZ's weight, as the rear end was stripped out at SLB when Rob ran that lap. Thing was moving!

also shows you how cheap the owners of the track can be when it comes to new pavement haha

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I was always curious about the AJR BRZ's weight, as the rear end was stripped out at SLB when Rob ran that lap. Thing was moving!

I know right? the guy claims he did 1:55 at our local track (RMP) and I take his word ..but I am not sure if it's possible with full weight I am SC and my best lap so far was (1:58) I had some ABS/EBD issues at that time and am pretty sure I have a lot of room for advancement (since that was my 2nd time) but still it's amazing with an NA car

he mentioned (on his facebook) that he was running 245s Z214s so I think it also supports your statement about the optimal tire size last year he was doing 1:59s with 265s and 2:00 with 255s respectively.. I don't see any other BRZ/FRS below 2 mins here in RMP