Best Slicks / Race Tires for the Money

[tez2013]

Slow down and read more carefully, and it will all make sense. Grip is what I'm after, but I'm not looking for the best (read stickiest) tier out there; I'm looking for the best tire given the price. For example, if Khumo 710 gets me 90% of R6s performance for 60% of the price, than that's the tire I'm after. Hopefully that makes sense.

Comment around stock suspension/alignment was a question rather than a statement, and has since been answered.

Originally Posted by King Tut

So many contradictions. Probably what @CSG Mike was replying to. My favorite part is the crazy, never-ending grip. That doesn't exist. You talk like you want to be out there on Hoosier A6s, but then at the end you say you want bang for your buck. I still say that bang for your buck will be one of the faster street tires, but crazy grip will be the Hoosier A6. You say you will only be running these tires at the track, but then this is your daily driver? You won't be able to maximize any tire and will wear them out much quicker without a proper amount of camber. With the stock alignment you will waste your expensive race rubber by wearing out the outside edge and not utilizing the full contact patch. How much money are you willing to spend to get your car aligned before and after each track event to put your track alignment on and then your street alignment on? Are you okay with running a track alignment on the street that will wear out the inside edge of your tires?

My advice to you is that if this car is your daily driver, then stick with some fast street tires and a compromised street/track alignment and just enjoy your track weekends. Should you decide to make this car a track only car, then step up your suspension, alignment, and hop on some R comps.

[dp1]

Would you say that in your bang for the buck calculation, you would consider grip, price and also the number of heat cycles? Is it for dry only or dry and wet on track? I ordered my Toyo RA-1 shaved and heat cycled to experience more grip from the beginning but next time will look into Toyo RR or again RA-1 but not shaved to make them last longer. With full 9/32 tread they are also good in the rain.

I am looking forward to an updated list that @CSG Mike posted earlier that includes more comments on grip vs temp and longevity (HPDE heat cycles or days)...maybe I'll put it together later based on above comments.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Interesting to hear your opinion of the Toyo RR. I know that the SpecE30 racers have not all found that to be true. I make sure I put a good full session heat cycle on my new RRs (normally Saturday warm up) and then give them a month or so till the next event to race on them. I have found myself getting 3 weekends out of them while some SpecE30 guys only like using them for 2 weekends. I am sometimes able to get some use at of them at a 4th event though as I like to get my moneys worth and run them till they cord like you used to be able to do with the original Toyo RA1s as they were fastest right up until they corded. I know you talk in heat cycles, but I prefer to talk in weekends as a 15 minute quali session isn't the same as a 45 minute race session as far as a heat cycle. The downside is that the Toyo RR is available in much fewer sizes than the RA1 and the R888 because it is really only meant for the NASA Toyo Tire contingency racing groups which are SpecE30, Spec Miata, 944Spec, and American Iron.

Available in 13, 15, 16, 17 and 18" sizes. Last year they only had 3 sizes, this year they have 9 sizes.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....odel=Proxes+RR

As for the SpecE30 guys, some are better at setting their car up than others and some don't dial in enough camber. The trick is they like lots of camber and higher pressures (like 38+ hot). The Spec Miata, Honda challenge and PRO3 group (local E30 group) all found lots of time vs the RA1/R888. To me, they are Toyo's "R6". But then again this same thing happened when the Spec Miata guys switched from RA1's to Hoosier SM6's.. Some said the Hoosiers were slower but the problem was they needed to change their setup a bit to maximize their tire and they had to learn how to drive a grippier tire. Once they learned how to drive the tire, they were all faster on Hoosiers over the RA1.

As far as the 15 minute session vs a 45 minute session I would beg to differ and so would Toyo, Hoosier and other tire companies. So long as a tire goes from cool-hot-cool and that "hot" point is within it's operating temp target of 160-220F then that is a heat cycle regardless of the duration of session. This why I sometimes skip practice altogether because there's no point in the heat cycle.

Also, and others disagree, but I pay for the Tire-Rack Heat Cycle service as I feel it adequately accomplishes the goal of the initial heat cycle and that way I can just put the tire on and run it hard. The idea of running a practice session just so cycle in my tires then have to store them away is a logistical expense that I feel is greater than paying the $15/tire to have them pre-heat-cycled. I think this service is responsible for my getting over 25 competitive cycles out of the tire. If you really want to put that into "weekends" then I'd say 4 weekends at roughly 6-8 sessions per weekend (I double enter).

I hope that helps.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by tez2013

Slow down and read more carefully, and it will all make sense. Grip is what I'm after, but I'm not looking for the best (read stickiest) tier out there; I'm looking for the best tire given the price. For example, if Khumo 710 gets me 90% of R6s performance for 60% of the price, than that's the tire I'm after. Hopefully that makes sense.

Comment around stock suspension/alignment was a question rather than a statement, and has since been answered.

Grip for dollar, the best tire will be the cheapest tire, which is the Hankook RS3.

What you should look for is grip versus tire life, IMO. What exactly is your goal? How many back to back laps do you typically do? How much power do you have? What is your experience level? What kind of events are you running?

[tez2013]

Thanks for your input. Have done about 20 track days over the last 3-4 years. Tires are the current limiting factor as they consistently squeal through majority of the corners, with the car slowing coming off the line. This is a free-flowing track (only 2 major braking zones), so brakes should hold up with my Ferodo pads & Castrol SRF fluid.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I agree.

The stock suspension and alignment is not designed to work well with r-comps/slicks.

Another thing with r-comps and slicks is you WILL need to take a serious look at your brakes. You should with sticky street tires too, but with r-comps you should at least be thinking about a BBK and possibly brake ducts to make life easier.

How much track experience do you have?

A common question that often goes unanswered is: Do you want to be a better driver or do you just want to set your fastest laptime this weekend? If it's the latter, then yeah, get the r-comps but in the long run you'll learn more on quality street tires before stepping up to r-comps.

- Andy

[tez2013]

Well put. It's really price given the longevity of the tire. Have run in the rain before and would definitely not plan on doing that with sticky tires.

Originally Posted by dp1

Would you say that in your bang for the buck calculation, you would consider grip, price and also the number of heat cycles? Is it for dry only or dry and wet on track? I ordered my Toyo RA-1 shaved and heat cycled to experience more grip from the beginning but next time will look into Toyo RR or again RA-1 but not shaved to make them last longer. With full 9/32 tread they are also good in the rain.

I am looking forward to an updated list that @CSG Mike posted earlier that includes more comments on grip vs temp and longevity (HPDE heat cycles or days)...maybe I'll put it together later based on above comments.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by tez2013

Thanks for your input. Have done about 20 track days over the last 3-4 years. Tires are the current limiting factor as they consistently squeal through majority of the corners, with the car slowing coming off the line. This is a free-flowing track (only 2 major braking zones), so brakes should hold up with my Ferodo pads & Castrol SRF fluid.

How close are you to every apex, and track out?

I can make the tire squeal the whole lap, without turning a fast lap, and I can turn a fast lap without tire noise...

[tez2013]

Thanks, Mike.

I've done +/- 20 track days between Nelson Ledges and Beaverun; most are open track days with 4-5 20 minute sessions. I run in the advanced group, and typically have no problem keeping up with current generation boxters/caymens and race-prepped miatas. Car is stock with exception of brake pads/fluid and tires.

I'll refine my goal statement: looking for the stickiest tire that will enable me to squeeze maximum potential from the current setup, without tinkering with suspension/alignment.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Grip for dollar, the best tire will be the cheapest tire, which is the Hankook RS3.

What you should look for is grip versus tire life, IMO. What exactly is your goal? How many back to back laps do you typically do? How much power do you have? What is your experience level? What kind of events are you running?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by tez2013

Thanks, Mike.

I've done +/- 20 track days between Nelson Ledges and Beaverun; most are open track days with 4-5 20 minute sessions. I run in the advanced group, and typically have no problem keeping up with current generation boxters/caymens and race-prepped miatas. Car is stock with exception of brake pads/fluid and tires.

I'll refine my goal statement: looking for the stickiest tire that will enable me to squeeze maximum potential from the current setup, without tinkering with suspension/alignment.

I'd actually suggest you try a 225 RS3. A wider tire has severely diminishing returns. You'll have less ultimate grip, but make up time accelerating.

Or, try a 215 NT01.

[tez2013]

Point taken, usually inches away from both, depending on cornering speed and margin for error. Let's just say that I have the line down pretty well. Not sure if you're familiar with Nelson Ledges (horsepower track), but my best time there is 1:19, far from slow let alone for a low power car like BRZ.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

How close are you to every apex, and track out?

I can make the tire squeal the whole lap, without turning a fast lap, and I can turn a fast lap without tire noise...

[tez2013]

Got it. Will definitely look into those two.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'd actually suggest you try a 225 RS3. A wider tire has severely diminishing returns. You'll have less ultimate grip, but make up time accelerating.

Or, try a 215 NT01.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by tez2013

Got it. Will definitely look into those two.

If you go with Nitto, check with Performance Tread for pricing; when I was still buying NT01s, PT always had the best shipped prices. No affiliation.

http://www.performancetread.com/bran...e_diameter=130

[wparsons]

Squealing can also be the pavement as well... I had my ZII's howling at warm up lap speeds on a freshly paved track (Mosport DDT), but they still had LOTS more grip in them.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by dradernh

If you go with Nitto, check with Performance Tread for pricing; when I was still buying NT01s, PT always had the best shipped prices. No affiliation.

http://www.performancetread.com/bran...e_diameter=130

local "Discount Tire" stores generally price match the online stores and you get free mounting and balance since you purchase from them so that you save another $100 on the total cost