Best Slicks / Race Tires for the Money

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'll group the tires by category (no particular order within a category)

"R-comp" 100TW
Toyo R888
Toyo RA1
Nitto NT01
Maxxis RC1

"R-Comp" 80TW
Hankook TD

"Slick" 40TW or lower
Toyo RR (actually they are UTQG of 40)
Hoosier A6 (best when cold)
Hoosier R6 (best when hot)
Kumho V710
BFG R1
BFG R1S
Hankook Ventus Z214 C51 (best when really hot)
Hankook Ventus Z214 C71 (best when cold Autox)

FTFY

I've run just about every tire listed here in racing conditions except for the A6, BFG and TD.. I've never heard of or seen the Maxxis RC1.

The Hankook C51 is great on cars where you heat both front and rears evenly like AWD or RWD because they SUCK when cold but are miracles of Jesus when hot. They won't give up and they can be punished like a sadomasochist without a safe word. However, not best bang for the buck as they cycle out almost as quickly as Hoosiers do.

To me, an "R-Comp" assumes that it won't be driven on the street. So when you're talking "best bang for the buck" I have to say Toyo RR. It's 95% of a Hoosier R6 in lateral grip, can be punished almost as bad as a Hankook C51 and heat cycles like an RA1. I have almost 30 cycles on mine they and they still give me within .05 lateral G's as they did when new. Some even say they get better after 5 or so cycles. You don't have to pay for shaving (like an R888 or RA1). I've matched my personal best times (and a couple class track records) on RR's that I previously set on R6's.


My vote for best bang for the buck R-Comp is:

[tez2013]

Thanks for all of the great feedback so far, guys.

To answer a few questions:
- I will surely be getting a spare set of rims and will only be running these tires on the track
- Given how lethargic this car is in a straight line, my goal is to maximize fun (ie speed) in the corners. So, my ultimate goal is crazy, never-ending grip. Secondary goal is to see if I can get close to / match the cornering speeds of my C6Z06 (PSS tires), which I'm tracking less and less given it's about 3-4 times as expensive in terms of running costs
- Budget is somewhat flexible, just looking for best bang for the buck.

This is my daily driver... would stock suspension & alignment still get a lot out of slicks, or would this really be a waste of money without stiffer springs & aggressive camber?

[CSG Mike]

Oops i brain farted after seeing some ridiculous posts.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by tez2013

This is my daily driver... would stock suspension & alignment still get a lot out of slicks, or would this really be a waste of money without stiffer springs & aggressive camber?

IMO, total waste without stiffer springs and a more aggressive alignment. The stock suspension won't be able to control the body movement from the much higher grip, and you'll be rolling hard over onto the shoulders.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

FTFY

I've run just about every tire listed here in racing conditions except for the A6, BFG and TD.. I've never heard of or seen the Maxxis RC1.

The Hankook C51 is great on cars where you heat both front and rears evenly like AWD or RWD because they SUCK when cold but are miracles of Jesus when hot. They won't give up and they can be punished like a sadomasochist without a safe word. However, not best bang for the buck as they cycle out almost as quickly as Hoosiers do.

To me, an "R-Comp" assumes that it won't be driven on the street. So when you're talking "best bang for the buck" I have to say Toyo RR. It's 95% of a Hoosier R6 in lateral grip, can be punished almost as bad as a Hankook C51 and heat cycles like an RA1. I have almost 30 cycles on mine they and they still give me within .05 lateral G's as they did when new. Some even say they get better after 5 or so cycles. You don't have to pay for shaving (like an R888 or RA1). I've matched my personal best times (and a couple class track records) on RR's that I previously set on R6's.


My vote for best bang for the buck R-Comp is:

it's amazing you were able to get 30 cycles out of them that's almost an entire season for me (maybe not quite but still ) that's probably what I am going to get next, thanks again

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by King Tut

The question is are those seconds and golden laps you will get with an R comp worth the price of admission in an HPDE enviornment.

Yes, definitely. While there are no stadium prizes there are definitely bragging rights. If I am faster in my underpowered car than you in your more powerful car then I "win".

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

So when you're talking "best bang for the buck" I have to say Toyo RR.

I can't seem to find a listing for 225/45/17

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

To me, an "R-Comp" assumes that it won't be driven on the street. So when you're talking "best bang for the buck" I have to say Toyo RR. It's 95% of a Hoosier R6 in lateral grip, can be punished almost as bad as a Hankook C51 and heat cycles like an RA1. I have almost 30 cycles on mine they and they still give me within .05 lateral G's as they did when new. Some even say they get better after 5 or so cycles. You don't have to pay for shaving (like an R888 or RA1). I've matched my personal best times (and a couple class track records) on RR's that I previously set on R6's.

Interesting to hear your opinion of the Toyo RR. I know that the SpecE30 racers have not all found that to be true. I make sure I put a good full session heat cycle on my new RRs (normally Saturday warm up) and then give them a month or so till the next event to race on them. I have found myself getting 3 weekends out of them while some SpecE30 guys only like using them for 2 weekends. I am sometimes able to get some use at of them at a 4th event though as I like to get my moneys worth and run them till they cord like you used to be able to do with the original Toyo RA1s as they were fastest right up until they corded. I know you talk in heat cycles, but I prefer to talk in weekends as a 15 minute quali session isn't the same as a 45 minute race session as far as a heat cycle. The downside is that the Toyo RR is available in much fewer sizes than the RA1 and the R888 because it is really only meant for the NASA Toyo Tire contingency racing groups which are SpecE30, Spec Miata, 944Spec, and American Iron.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Yes, definitely. While there are no stadium prizes there are definitely bragging rights. If I am faster in my underpowered car than you in your more powerful car then I "win".

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I can't seem to find a listing for 225/45/17

This guy sounds perfect for SpecE30. As I mentioned the sizes are very limited in Toyo RR due to Toyo only producing them for Spec Tire series where we all run the same tires.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by tez2013

- I will surely be getting a spare set of rims and will only be running these tires on the track
- Given how lethargic this car is in a straight line, my goal is to maximize fun (ie speed) in the corners. So, my ultimate goal is crazy, never-ending grip. Secondary goal is to see if I can get close to / match the cornering speeds of my C6Z06 (PSS tires), which I'm tracking less and less given it's about 3-4 times as expensive in terms of running costs
- Budget is somewhat flexible, just looking for best bang for the buck.

This is my daily driver... would stock suspension & alignment still get a lot out of slicks, or would this really be a waste of money without stiffer springs & aggressive camber?

So many contradictions. Probably what @CSG Mike was replying to. My favorite part is the crazy, never-ending grip. That doesn't exist. You talk like you want to be out there on Hoosier A6s, but then at the end you say you want bang for your buck. I still say that bang for your buck will be one of the faster street tires, but crazy grip will be the Hoosier A6. You say you will only be running these tires at the track, but then this is your daily driver? You won't be able to maximize any tire and will wear them out much quicker without a proper amount of camber. With the stock alignment you will waste your expensive race rubber by wearing out the outside edge and not utilizing the full contact patch. How much money are you willing to spend to get your car aligned before and after each track event to put your track alignment on and then your street alignment on? Are you okay with running a track alignment on the street that will wear out the inside edge of your tires?

My advice to you is that if this car is your daily driver, then stick with some fast street tires and a compromised street/track alignment and just enjoy your track weekends. Should you decide to make this car a track only car, then step up your suspension, alignment, and hop on some R comps.

[dp1]

My compromise for year-round (north east) street use and warm months track use (up to 10 track days per year):
- For cold months, street driving only, change alignment to -1.5f/-1r and use dedicated wheels with winter tires when temps drop below 45.
- For warm months, street and track driving, change alignment to -3f/-2.5r and swap between dedicated wheels with summer street tires (Michelin PSS) and dedicated wheels with track tires (Toyo RA1).

I see uneven wear on the insides of the summer street tires due to camber as price of admission for having a good setup for track. May get cheaper summer street rubber when PSS wears out but they have to work well in the wet on street and track.

Car has many mods. Summer/track camber requires at least camber plates in front and LCAs in rear.

[wparsons]

^^ The uneven wear on the inside should be almost non-existant if you're running zero toe.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by King Tut

My advice to you is that if this car is your daily driver, then stick with some fast street tires and a compromised street/track alignment and just enjoy your track weekends. Should you decide to make this car a track only car, then step up your suspension, alignment, and hop on some R comps.

I agree.

The stock suspension and alignment is not designed to work well with r-comps/slicks.

Another thing with r-comps and slicks is you WILL need to take a serious look at your brakes. You should with sticky street tires too, but with r-comps you should at least be thinking about a BBK and possibly brake ducts to make life easier.

How much track experience do you have?

A common question that often goes unanswered is: Do you want to be a better driver or do you just want to set your fastest laptime this weekend? If it's the latter, then yeah, get the r-comps but in the long run you'll learn more on quality street tires before stepping up to r-comps.

- Andy

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I was thinking to get one of them but I wasn't sure how I could accurately measure the tire temp between sessions since in the cooldown lap temps drop drastically

This is a good primer on taking and using tire temps: http://www.longacreracing.com/techni...rometer%20Tips

Your goal is to find out what your tire temperatures are when you're running hot laps, so you want to pull into the first open slot in the hot pits at the end of a hot lap, not a cooldown lap. Don't forget to take your foot off the brake once you come to a complete stop.

To get the most accurate readings, you'll use a helper or two to collect the data - one to take the temps and, if you aren't using a pyrometer that stores readings, another helper to write down the temperatures that the pyrometer operator calls out. (Yes, your goal is also to get this data taken ASAP.) If necessary, you can of course take the temperatures yourself.

To speed the taking of the front tires' temperatures, turn them to the right or to the left to expose the faces to the pyrometer operator. Don't forget they're turned when you get ready to take off again! lol

As has been mentioned elsewhere, start with the tire that sees the greatest loading on the track. That tire is the most important out of the four.

BTW, taking the temperatures is the easy part - interpreting them is as much art as it is science. That's been my experience, anyway.