Best Slicks / Race Tires for the Money

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

awesome, yes I know the R888s are notorious for being inconsistent and consistency is the main reason I picked NT01s over the hardcore lower TW R comps.. it seems like the NT01s are still the magic tire when all considered :/


if you saw the comparison between the Hankook TD and NT01s that I posted above, TD might be another good alternative ..since I do care about the tread when I drive to closer tracks within 100 mile radius. too bad there are not so many places offer the Ventus TDs and I don't hear as much feedback except that test

The TD is in a different class from the NT01. It's MUCH faster, but heat cycles out insanely fast.

We call them the "two day" down here, since after two days, they're rocks, if you haven't destroyed them already.

The 1st heat cycle is the fastest for the TD, 2nd cycle for the NT01 and RC1.

As for the rennlist drivers that drive the NT01 to the cords: The NT01 also heat cycles out. If they're still gripping that late in their lives, then the owners/drivers aren't pushing the tires as hard as they think, but if the heat cycles aren't there, then the NT01 and RC1 are both good down to their cord.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The TD is in a different class from the NT01. It's MUCH faster, but heat cycles out insanely fast.

We call them the "two day" down here, since after two days, they're rocks, if you haven't destroyed them already.

The 1st heat cycle is the fastest for the TD, 2nd cycle for the NT01 and RC1.

As for the rennlist drivers that drive the NT01 to the cords: The NT01 also heat cycles out. If they're still gripping that late in their lives, then the owners/drivers aren't pushing the tires as hard as they think, but if the heat cycles aren't there, then the NT01 and RC1 are both good down to their cord.

wow really? that quick huh? (assuming you guys tested the Medium or Hard compound) so the 80 TW on TDs doesn't reflect the truth at all no wonder the discrepancies between different manufacturers when they can rate their own TW

I personally never drove any tire to the cords and I am sideways most of the time when I push them maybe I should get a bit wider tire next time (255s maybe) to get more mechanical grip..for some reason I don't think I have tuned my car's handling to its ultimate potential maybe I just suck at driving that's all haha

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by tez2013

Hey guys,

I'm currently running Dunlop's Direzza Z2 on a stock set-up, and looking to take it to the next level at the track.

What's the consensus on the best value for money track-only tires? I'm currently looking into Hoosier A6, R6, and NT-01.

Also, is the 17 inch rim the smallest rim we can fit on the car? I'm trying to go with the smallest rim for the track to minimize rotating mass as well as tire cost. Assuming 245 is the widest that will fit without rubbing (stock alignment/ride height)?

Thanks all.

You're going to have a bad time with true R comps on stock suspension and alignment... you'll want MUCH higher spring rates, and a much more aggressive alignment before making that move.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

wow really? that quick huh? (assuming you guys tested the Medium or Hard compound) so the 80 TW on TDs doesn't reflect the truth at all no wonder the discrepancies between different manufacturers when they can rate their own TW

I personally never drove any tire to the cords and I am sideways most of the time when I push them maybe I should get a bit wider tire next time (255s maybe) to get more mechanical grip..for some reason I don't think I have tuned my car's handling to its ultimate potential maybe I just suck at driving that's all haha

Well, the wear problem is more chunking or destroying an edge, than the tread itself. The tire has so much grip that it overheats quickly, and that heat is what destroys the tire.

If you purely street drive the tire, than the 80TW is probably accurate, and that is what the TW rating system is for.

Also, being sideways is MUCH easier on the tire than generating mechanicap grip. Spinning the tires heats only the surface, and a lot of energy is absorbed when smoking the tires, whereas generating grip heats up the tire down to the core.

I highly recommend you get a pyrometer.

[King Tut]

My understanding has been that the NT01/RA1/R888 are all farily similar in compound design. My advice to the OP is that unless you are competing in a time trial or racing, then leave the R compounds at home as they will never be a best value for money tire. You can probably get a couple sets of the faster street tires for the price of one set of Hoosier A6/R6s. The Hoosier A6 is really an AutoX tire that is really only good for one or two flyer laps at a track day whereas the R6 is meant to be raced on and run longer heat cycles. I have only ever done track weekends on Kumho XS and Toyo RA1/RR tires in my SpecE30. I can tell you that the Kumho XS were just as fast after the 10th track weekend as they were for the first weekend and could have went more weekends while I am lucky to get 3 good weekends out of a set of Toyo RA1(shaved)/RRs.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by King Tut

My understanding has been that the NT01/RA1/R888 are all farily similar in compound design. My advice to the OP is that unless you are competing in a time trial or racing, then leave the R compounds at home as they will never be a best value for money tire.

I sorta agree and disagree with this.

For a newer driver, it's definitely a bad choice. However, for more experienced drivers, the R-comps last longer before starting to overheat, so you get more quality seat time.

With street tires, I get a 1 or 2 lap window, whereas with R-comps, I get a 2-4 lap window.

Also, with R-comps, you can do a few cooldown laps, and they'll recover much faster than street tires.

Again, this only applies to drivers with enough experience to recognize when the tires are starting to overheat, not when they're badly overheated and greasy.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, the wear problem is more chunking or destroying an edge, than the tread itself. The tire has so much grip that it overheats quickly, and that heat is what destroys the tire.

If you purely street drive the tire, than the 80TW is probably accurate, and that is what the TW rating system is for.

Also, being sideways is MUCH easier on the tire than generating mechanicap grip. Spinning the tires heats only the surface, and a lot of energy is absorbed when smoking the tires, whereas generating grip heats up the tire down to the core.

I highly recommend you get a pyrometer.

I was thinking to get one of them but I wasn't sure how I could accurately measure the tire temp between sessions since in the cooldown lap temps drop drastically

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I was thinking to get one of them but I wasn't sure how I could accurately measure the tire temp between sessions since in the cooldown lap temps drop drastically

Ideally, you want someone to help you. Pull into the hot pits mid-session, and have them measure the inner, center, and outer tread blocks in quick succession. **make sure you don't boil your brake fluid doing this**

The surface of the tire cools quickly, but the core does not, which is why you want a probe type pyrometer.

During your cooldown, go just slow enough to not use the brakes, but keep your cornering speeds high, and your temps will be reasonably accurate.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Ideally, you want someone to help you. Pull into the hot pits mid-session, and have them measure the inner, center, and outer tread blocks in quick succession. **make sure you don't boil your brake fluid doing this**

The surface of the tire cools quickly, but the core does not, which is why you want a probe type pyrometer.

During your cooldown, go just slow enough to not use the brakes, but keep your cornering speeds high, and your temps will be reasonably accurate.

hmm makes sense, that's exactly how I drive during the cooldown lap btw,
I try to keep the things (brake ductings, intercooler, etc) cool by feeding enough air while upshift and try to lower the oil temps low.. I will try to get a pyrometer as you suggested (not the fancy ones but one of the "Longacre" or "Joe's Racing" entry levels that cost about $100) hoping they do the task

thanks again

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

hmm makes sense, that's exactly how I drive during the cooldown lap btw,
I try to keep the things (brake ductings, intercooler, etc) cool by feeding enough air while upshift and try to lower the oil temps low.. I will try to get a pyrometer as you suggested (not the fancy ones but one of the "Longacre" or "Joe's Racing" entry levels that cost about $100) hoping they do the task

thanks again

Longacre is what we use. No need for for Fluke here.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Longacre-50620-Dual-Function-Pyrometer/dp/B000VAPZIQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1405465364&sr= 1-1&keywords=longacre+50620"]Amazon.com: Longacre 50620 Dual Function Pyrometer: Automotive[/ame]

That's the one we use. That way, you can get internal and surface temps, and also measure temps of your brakes, headers, etc.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I sorta agree and disagree with this.

For a newer driver, it's definitely a bad choice. However, for more experienced drivers, the R-comps last longer before starting to overheat, so you get more quality seat time.

With street tires, I get a 1 or 2 lap window, whereas with R-comps, I get a 2-4 lap window.

Also, with R-comps, you can do a few cooldown laps, and they'll recover much faster than street tires.

Again, this only applies to drivers with enough experience to recognize when the tires are starting to overheat, not when they're badly overheated and greasy.

Quality seat time? In HPDE, all seat time is quality. Who cares about a 1 to 2 lap window or a 2 to 4 lap window. A window for what? There is no HPDE trophy. You go out under green, and you come back in when the checkers are out. If you can feel the tires are getting overheated, then back it down a lap and cool them. The question is are those seconds and golden laps you will get with an R comp worth the price of admission in an HPDE enviornment.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Quality seat time? In HPDE, all seat time is quality. Who cares about a 1 to 2 lap window or a 2 to 4 lap window. A window for what? There is no HPDE trophy. You go out under green, and you come back in when the checkers are out. If you can feel the tires are getting overheated, then back it down a lap and cool them. The question is are those seconds and golden laps you will get with an R comp worth the price of admission in an HPDE enviornment.

If you ain't first, you're last. Every lap is a time attack lap.

[bimmer635csi]

Is there any reason nobody has mentioned Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires? Is it due to the "best for the money" part of the OP (Michelins tend to be beaucoup dinero)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bimmer635csi

Is there any reason nobody has mentioned Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires? Is it due to the "best for the money" part of the OP (Michelins tend to be beaucoup dinero)

Dollar for dollar, they are not competitive, but they ARE the OEM tires on many, many high dollar cars.