Crawford Performance Turbo Kit

[diodelphi]

i do not why people in this forum do not like crawford?!!!
i think the only tuner make power at low rpm is crawford and what you expect from a vf36 twin scroll ?????
you expect boost start from 3k and it hold power till 7k????????
even a dummy person like me knows if boost start from 3k you can not hold it at 7k!!!

be honest please

[Kiske]

be honest please

I'll bite.

Originally Posted by diodelphi

i do not why people in this forum do not like crawford?!!!

----A.They claim to be the 1st to do this (nope...)
----B. Largest FMIC kit... (again nope)
----C. Base kit cost roughtly $7k, was higher when first introduced. ($3k average higher than the rest... Paying for the Crawford name.)
----D. Kit uses a tiny turbo (JDM VF36 STI turbo) creating globs of torque but falls on it's face at higher (5k) rpms
----E. All their specs posted leave out the fact a built block was used.
----F. Their built block + turbo combo IIRC was $20K+ "Sky if falling" package.
----G. They will not post dyno(s.)
----H. Too large FMIC for a tiny turbo.
----I. A lot of piping footage.
----J. They will not share turning information. All 3rd party reviews have stated their BRZ's are not properlly tuned and have many kinks majorly effecting drivability. Despite this crawford says it is complete.
----K. Flip-Flop information. When they started they preached about the FA20 stock block strength while boosted. Then they released a build enigne block and pretty much told eveyone they either had to build their blocks beacuse the FA20 was unreliable without.
----L. Apparently, they also created a shit-storm on these board when they argued over Forum Vendor status or something pissing a lot of mods/members off.

you expect boost start from 3k and it hold power till 7k????????

We kind of do. Even large turbos like SportGuy83's GTX30 are spooling a 3500 rpms. Here is a great theread discussing the GTX turbo's with plots to show you. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57370

Here is his GTX3076 plot, bosot starts at 3k, full boost a 4300rpms until redline!
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=1707

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Kiske

----K. Flip-Flop information. When they started they preached about the FA20 stock block strength while boosted. Then they released a build enigne block and pretty much told eveyone they either had to build their blocks beacuse the FA20 was unreliable without.
----L. Apparently, they also created a shit-storm on these board when they argued over Forum Vendor status or something pissing a lot of mods/members off.

(IIRC) Crawford posted some great pics of the engine and internals, and they were the first to do so. That was awesome. But they argued with the mods about paying for vendor status and they posted pics that to my mind were lies to sell parts.

So, @diodelphi, the reason most of us are against Crawford, aside from the reasons listed by Kiske: Crawford lost our trust. If you want trust on a forum like this you need to earn it with transparency, too much can be faked and he made next to no effort to show repeatable results or share even his philosophies behind his decision making. If you want an example of how to do it properly, take a look at any of PTuning's threads, Racecomp Engineering's threads, AVO's threads, Moto-Mike's threads, Delicious Tuning's threads, Drift-Office's threads etc. etc. (I'm sure there are many more on here, those are just the first ones I thought of)

For most, that lack of transparency would be enough, but he also didn't want to support a site that would have been supporting his business, and massively over charged for what he was selling.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Originally Posted by diodelphi

i do not why people in this forum do not like crawford?!!!
i think the only tuner make power at low rpm is crawford and what you expect from a vf36 twin scroll ?????
you expect boost start from 3k and it hold power till 7k????????
even a dummy person like me knows if boost start from 3k you can not hold it at 7k!!!

be honest please

My car builds at 3500 and holds to redline. I guess you are the dummy here, no offence but you said it not me. Crawford is nothing more than another Cosworth, charging huge premiums for the name. They realised quickly that a low rpm boost spike like the one that comes with the vf36 turbo kills the stock connecting rods, hence why they had to build the engine after blowing up several although they won't tell you that.

[Reaper]

Not trying to fuel the fire here but I make 393 wtq at 4200 rpm on a stock engine with a fullblown base kit.

[diodelphi]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

My car builds at 3500 and holds to redline. I guess you are the dummy here, no offence but you said it not me. Crawford is nothing more than another Cosworth, charging huge premiums for the name. They realised quickly that a low rpm boost spike like the one that comes with the vf36 turbo kills the stock connecting rods, hence why they had to build the engine after blowing up several although they won't tell you that.

no problem sir , if i'm dummy it has no negative effect on other life, be sure.
remember crawford charge more because true concept is lowering CR.
lowering CR cost more plus other thing like Air oil seprator.

there is no expensive component in their tune.
boosting stock high CR will damage the rod and are you sure they did not control the surge?
crawford team is not a beginner in tuning, they khow what are doing.

i never used FB kit and have no idea about them but overaly can you compare FB experience with crawford experience in subaru tuning?

i do not like compare them but we should not leave negative effect about a company that we never used their kit.

[diodelphi]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Not trying to fuel the fire here but I make 393 wtq at 4200 rpm on a stock engine with a fullblown base kit.

as i know 400wtq will kill rod on stock

[diodelphi]

Originally Posted by Calum

(IIRC) Crawford posted some great pics of the engine and internals, and they were the first to do so. That was awesome. But they argued with the mods about paying for vendor status and they posted pics that to my mind were lies to sell parts.

So, @diodelphi, the reason most of us are against Crawford, aside from the reasons listed by Kiske: Crawford lost our trust. If you want trust on a forum like this you need to earn it with transparency, too much can be faked and he made next to no effort to show repeatable results or share even his philosophies behind his decision making. If you want an example of how to do it properly, take a look at any of PTuning's threads, Racecomp Engineering's threads, AVO's threads, Moto-Mike's threads, Delicious Tuning's threads, Drift-Office's threads etc. etc. (I'm sure there are many more on here, those are just the first ones I thought of)

For most, that lack of transparency would be enough, but he also didn't want to support a site that would have been supporting his business, and massively over charged for what he was selling.

your quote seems be logical about clearing data , i agree they are alittle close in sharing data

[TkTk]

Originally Posted by diodelphi

crawford team is not a beginner in tuning, they khow what are doing.

i never used FB kit and have no idea about them but overaly can you compare FB experience with crawford experience in subaru tuning?

i do not like compare them but we should not leave negative effect about a company that we never used their kit.

I did try crawford full package. Nightmare is an understatment to describe my expirence with them

I never tried FBM kit but allot of people did and the product speaks for it self. You can find many good reviews on this site.

[Tiz]

1. I did not try the FT86 Crawford kit.

2. I did try a Subaru WRX STI Crawford kit (stoker engine and turbo kit). It was good.

3. It seems to me that the Crawford (twinscroll) kit is the only US kit (except for the low hp AVO kit) that makes more than 400hp on pump gas AND has a reasonable power band (i.e. it makes significant power below 4k rpm). I do not want a turbo kit that makes power/boost at 4.5+ rpm. This is what quarter mile kiddies need. This is how turbos performed in the 80s. I do not understand why most people seem to be content with the lag of the turbo kits that are mostly discussed in this forum.

4. I also do not understand why people insist on comparing whp figures. Noone does this in Europe. No car manufacturer quotes whp figures. The reason is simple. Each dyno reads differently. Moreover, the same dyno reads differently depending on the exact configuration. That's why dynos are usually calibrated so that you can correctly convert non-comparable whp figures and quote "normal", OEM-like crank hp figures that can be easily compared. Do you believe that every tuner cheats and, therefore, insist on whp figures?

5. It seems to me that many people in this forum hate Crawford because they have refused to pay money to the owner of this forum. I believe that's why they were banned. But this does not automatically mean that their products are bad.

[Dipstik-sportech]

I make 425whp on 91 pump gas, not 93 like the Crawford kit and before you go saying I have a built engine don't forget all their numbers were on a built engine as well. Hell I had 400 crank HP back when I had my gt2871 and had an even more useable power band than their kit, who wants a kit that peaks at 4600rpm then falls on it's face till 7500rpm? I'll call out anyone with a Crawford kit and race them, oh wait no one is stupid enough to take that challenge, not even Crawford themselves. People here quote in wheel HP because it shows how much you're actually making at the tire and most shops don't want to pull everyomes engines to dyno them. OEM uses crank HP because they have the luxury of dynoing the engine before it goes into the car during assembly and they don't do it to every engine.

[cdrazic93]

Its not like crawford makes bad stuff. Would you rather buy their kit using xx components, when multiple kits (well tested proven and just as good, with better results) using the same xx components for half the price? Its saving you money, most of us would like to limit the thousands of $$ we spend on our cars or make it stretch as far as we can.

Think of it as $/hp. Calculate it.

[diodelphi]

personally i prefer going for bigger turbo because ft86 nature is not like bmw .
bmw torque start from 1500 and ft86 start from 5500.
i prefer using a turbo that it's nature is like stock engine nature.
EFR7163 with full-race kit is my choice.
you see i do not prefer crawford kit fot it's top end and i do not like change internal for turbo.
crawford option is not my choice but i think we should regard professionals.
Mr.Crawford is really a professional tuner.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by diodelphi

i do not why people in this forum do not like crawford?!!!
i think the only tuner make power at low rpm is crawford and what you expect from a vf36 twin scroll ?????
you expect boost start from 3k and it hold power till 7k????????
even a dummy person like me knows if boost start from 3k you can not hold it at 7k!!!

be honest please

We are honest. The Crawford kit is able to produce a very low RPM high boost spike which will make the car feel more like a Subaru WRX. The thing is, we bought a Subaru BRZ and we like the fact it is a sports car and revs to 8000 RPM. I would like my turbo to be able to only lose a couple psi on the way up to 8000 RPM instead of falling on its face like a baby Subaru turbo does.