Eneos Sustina or Motul Oil 8100 eco-lite? 0W-20

[Fizz]

Originally Posted by viscositosis.rex

Yes ! Sustina and TGMO are similar in viscosity and TGMO is the spec'd oil. To me, viscosity and how you get there is where it's at. I would definitely consider Fuchs if I lived in OZ. It's too thick, but it sure runs clean. BTW your motor oil prices are obscene. Cheers.

I considered the Titan GT1 but almost fainted when I found out the price (~USD120 per 4 litres).

The TGMO is cheaper (~USD$70 per 4 litres) but still ridiculously expensive.

I laugh whenever I read someone from the US complaining about Sustina being too expensive....

[sluflyer06]

Originally Posted by viscositosis.rex

Sure. I don't mean to insult you with comments about stuff you already know. Let's see. One BRZ. Two BMWs. Maybe that is it. We have got diametrically opposed engine designs and corresponding specs. If you can get to the point of feeling comfortable and confident in pouring in the Sustina, you will experience a difference in performance. That's the point- Sustina gives you protection near the other oils, only it is much,much lighter. As I have stated, I can feel the difference, even between Sustina and TGMO.

It's not that I have any comfort or confidence issues in Sustina, I'm just objectively asking people if anyone has demonstrated that its actually better than other options that aren't so costly. I'm all for paying up for Sustina it would just be silly of any of us to be doing so if UOA (or other hard evidence) showed us that it wasn't actually protecting the engine any better.

This isn't my first boxer motor, I had a built motor WRX with a rotated GT3076R and a 6 speed swap. But on that I used Rotella T 10w-40 per the engine builders guidelines and changed it every 3k. Very cheap and extremely effective oil.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by sluflyer06

It's not that I have any comfort or confidence issues in Sustina, I'm just objectively asking people if anyone has demonstrated that its actually better than other options that aren't so costly.

It would be difficult to demonstrate. Maybe take two identical cars, run one on Sustina and one on a cheaper oil for 100k miles in identical driving conditions, and do an engine teardown and inspection to measure the wear.

I'm not saying that Sustina is not a great oil. It produces excellent uoa results and looks great on paper. The "proof" that sluflyer is referring to about being a superior product over other oils is a challenge for any company to demonstrate. Even when some companies show pics on engines run on different oils, they usually compare a synthetic to a conventional.

Amsoil actually used an independent lab to compare their oil against other synthetic oils (5W-30's) using industry standard ASTM tests. While Amsoil did better overall in more tests, IIRC, some of the competitors did better in some important tests and some scored very close to Amsoil. OTOH, the ASTM tests are lab tests, bench tests, and engine tests on a 90's era Nissan. Do these tests 100% accurately represent how an oil performs in an engine?

This is a great article on uoa's.

Firstly, it is important to realize that you get what you pay for. The most common forms of UOA are limited in their scope. It is a case of if you pay more you get more. So my comments here relate primarily to the “simple” UOAs – the cornerstone of those appearing on BITOG.

Secondly, it is easy to assume that by carrying out a UOA you will be able to determine how quickly the engine is wearing out. As well, if you change lubricant Brands you will be able to compare the wear metal uptake results and then make a balanced best lubricant choice to make your engine last longer.

Sadly that logic is seriously flawed.

Single pass (random) UOAs will provide some information regarding wear metals but unless you have a history of your engine’s performance up to around 1 million miles the results are simply that – UOA results! As an example a limit of 150ppm of Iron is a reality – after say 100k it means the lubricant should be changed and all is well. But what is the situation if you have 150ppm of Iron at 5k? Where would you look what would or could you do? So UOAs are really a diagnostic tool – one of many!

The other parts of the UOA Report will be much more valuable to you – it will tell you about the CONDITION of the lubricant and its suitability for further use. This will enable you to get the maximum safe use from the lubricant saving a valuable resource in the process....

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

-Dennis

[viscositosis.rex]

I demonstrated in 2012 that Sustina works well, protects well, and that the OCIs can be stretched out to defray the cost of this expensive oil.

How difficult is it supposed to be for you to purchase Sustina, use it, and decide for yourself, how well it performs?

Do you not realize how ridiculous you sound?

Dennis, you saw my UOAs from 2012. You are aware that I am powerless to post my seminal UOAs on bitog, having been banned by the owner of the "Internet's Number One Motor Oil Web Site."

Sustina is not superior to other oils with regard to protection. It is as good-and much, much lighter besides.

To anyone on the face of this planet, who claims thst Sustina does not offer superior performance to other oils, I say to you, you are flat out wrong.

I have driven 40k miles on Sustina and I have used TGMO, MGMO, RedLine, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Pennzoil Platinum, all in 0W20 grade. I have driven over 2 million miles in passenger cars. I have demonstrated it and I have lived it.

I challenge anyone to post my UOAs on bitog and I challenge bitog management to not delete the posting. Get the correct information out to the motor oil world. I regret very much that I am unable to do so.

[viscositosis.rex]

I am sure you are aware that there are many Prius taxicabs driving many millions of miles on TGMO.
I am sure yhat you are also aware that a motorist can obtain better MPGs on Sustina or TGMO than they can on T5 or Ecolite.
I am sure that you are aware that performance improvements can be easily demonstrated via butt dyno or performance garage dynometer.
You avoid the truth. Why don't you just state your opinion? Sustina is too light and expensive to risk putting in your car, even after the engineers that designed the engine say it is the correct oil to use.

[viscositosis.rex]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

It would be difficult to demonstrate. Maybe take two identical cars, run one on Sustina and one on a cheaper oil for 100k miles in identical driving conditions, and do an engine teardown and inspection to measure the wear.

I'm not saying that Sustina is not a great oil. It produces excellent uoa results and looks great on paper. The "proof" that sluflyer is referring to about being a superior product over other oils is a challenge for any company to demonstrate. Even when

LOL. Is the idea supposed to be that you guys would start using Eneos Sustina 0W20 SN ILSAC GF-5 motor oil, once the immortal Sustina passes your arbitrary, stringent, gruelling test, with flying colors, nd the engine is broken down and parts are measured with a micrometer?

BTW, Dave Newton expressed much enthusiasm over my UOA, after using Castrol SynyheticBlend 5W20 SN in a 10k mile OCI. He would have been very pleased to see the results of my successive 10k, 15k, 17k, and 19k mile UOAs on The Sustina. You see, a pattern was established, demonstrating the behavior of The Sustina. Of course, none of this applies to the high-revving, high spirited, daily+track driving that drivers of the 86 do...

Come to think of it, I actually drove 60k total miles on The Sustina...closing in on that 100k mile figure...no I won't be tearing the engine down...current odometer reading is 225,915miles...the engine has not blown up...there is no oil burn off...none...the PCV valve is pristine when I replace it...hard driving...shudda used the Dominator.

[BRZnut]

Originally Posted by viscositosis.rex

LOL. Is the idea supposed to be that you guys would start using Eneos Sustina 0W20 SN ILSAC GF-5 motor oil, once the immortal Sustina passes your arbitrary, stringent, gruelling test, with flying colors, nd the engine is broken down and parts are measured with a micrometer?

BTW, Dave Newton expressed much enthusiasm over my UOA, after using Castrol SynyheticBlend 5W20 SN in a 10k mile OCI. He would have been very pleased to see the results of my successive 10k, 15k, 17k, and 19k mile UOAs on The Sustina. You see, a pattern was established, demonstrating the behavior of The Sustina. Of course, none of this applies to the high-revving, high spirited, daily+track driving that drivers of the 86 do...

Come to think of it, I actually drove 60k total miles on The Sustina...closing in on that 100k mile figure...no I won't be tearing the engine down...current odometer reading is 225,915miles...the engine has not blown up...there is no oil burn off...none...the PCV valve is pristine when I replace it...hard driving...shudda used the Dominator.

When you say you "drove 60K on the Sustina", how often did you change the oil? Can someone just list the value of Eneos Sustina over other 0-20w oils??


Thanks!

[viscositosis.rex]

Originally Posted by BRZnut

When you say you "drove 60K on the Sustina", how often did you change the oil? Can someone just list the value of Eneos Sustina over other 0-20w oils??


Thanks!

OCIs were 10k, 15k, 17k, and finally 19k miles. UOAs were conducted after each oil change.
A VOA was obtained beforehand, all from the same batch of oil. Thusly baselines and trends are established.

The TBN hovered around 2.0 out to 20k miles. Metal wear numbers were at normal rates. Flash point remained above threshhold. Somewhere between 17k and 19k miles, oxidative thickening increased to a percentage level that it called for an oil change.

I immediately followed up this Sustina run with a 12k mile run on Pennzoil Ultra SN 5W30. This high-calcium, GTL oil is very effective at cleaning. The oil remained new in appearance until 10k miles.



All this happened with essentially the thinnest oil on the market.

It astounds me that you would buy an 86 and then deprive yourself of greater performance by not use the highest-quality, very thin oils that it calls for. The thicker oils produce sluggish response, in comparison to Sustina. The 5 PPM of Fe not the key point at all IMHO. The viscosity and the components that create the viscosity are.

[BRZnut]

Originally Posted by viscositosis.rex

OCIs were 10k, 15k, 17k, and finally 19k miles. UOAs were conducted after each oil change.
A VOA was obtained beforehand, all from the same batch of oil. Thusly baselines and trends are established.

The TBN hovered around 2.0 out to 20k miles. Metal wear numbers were at normal rates. Flash point remained above threshhold. Somewhere between 17k and 19k miles, oxidative thickening increased to a percentage level that it called for an oil change.

I immediately followed up this Sustina run with a 12k mile run on Pennzoil Ultra SN 5W30. This high-calcium, GTL oil is very effective at cleaning. The oil remained new in appearance until 10k miles.



All this happened with essentially the thinnest oil on the market.

It astounds me that you would buy an 86 and then deprive yourself of greater performance by not use the highest-quality, very thin oils that it calls for. The thicker oils produce sluggish response, in comparison to Sustina. The 5 PPM of Fe not the key point at all IMHO. The viscosity and the components that create the viscosity are.

Thanks for the f/u. So from your experience a 15K interval would be "safe" with sustina, and it should maximize performance & MPG in the 86. I've been running Mobil-1 and calculate the MPG with each fill up (usually 27 by my calculation each time). Would be interesting to see if I notice a difference with sustina.

[viscositosis.rex]

Originally Posted by BRZnut

Thanks for the f/u. So from your experience a 15K interval would be "safe" with sustina, and it should maximize performance & MPG in the 86. I've been running Mobil-1 and calculate the MPG with each fill up (usually 27 by my calculation each time). Would be interesting to see if I notice a difference with sustina.

Start at 10k mile OCI. Do UOAs. Watch flashpoint and operating viscosity. MPG improvementwill be slight but helpful in defraying cost. Performance improvement will be profound per butt dyno.

I hope this enhances your enjoyment of owning and driving your fantastic, beautiful car.

[viscositosis.rex]

Originally Posted by viscositosis.rex

I demonstrated in 2012 that Sustina works well




Dennis, you saw my UOAs from 2012. You are aware that I am powerless to post my seminal UOAs on bitog, having been banned by the owner of the "Internet's Number One Motor Oil Web Site."






I challenge anyone to post my UOAs on bitog and I challenge bitog management to not delete the posting. Get the correct information out to the motor oil world. I regret very much that I am unable to do so.

I got home from work tonight and attempted to browse with my laptop the bobistheoilguy website, one of my favorite websites, that I visit each day, to learn about motor oil. It seems that they have now, as of today sometime, locked me out from visiting their website from the server in my house. WOW.


It seems that the owner, Helen Riek, or someone, has a great deal of anger towards me. I have apologized to her before, and I apologize again now.


Maybe someday we can both experience the power of forgiveness together. In the mean time, I wish you well, but must say that I really do not understand what it is, exactly, that you are upset with me about.


bobistheoilguy is a tremendous website, and everyone wishing to learn about motor oil, a strangely fascinating subject in my view, would be well served to visit the site.


I do hope that I am allowed to continue to post here. I stumbled upon this website when I did a google search and saw that my Sustina UOAs were posted here. What an honor. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


Respectfully submitted, viscositosis tribocessive.rex

[bluesubie]

viscositosis - A rather enjoyable string of posts there. Although, I would just like to point out one thing.

One of my pet peeves about motor oil is when people generalize an oil's performance based on uoa's and/or experience in a particular application. Application is frequently overlooked in a lot of oil discussions.

While I do believe that many people can go 10,000 miles on Sustina in many different applications, I would be cautious about flat out recommending those intervals solely based on your experience in a different automobile.

It's sort of like people that run Mobil 0W-20 or 5W-30 because "If it's good enough for [Porsche] [Audi] [BMW] [Mercedes] it's good enough for my car!". As you well know, a Euro spec oil is a complelty different animal than a GF5 Resource Conserving one.

And just like I would never compare the experience of the conventional oil used in my daughter's naturually apirated 2000 Impreza RS to the synthetic oil used in my Forester Stage I turbo. Or comparing a stock, street driven BRZ/FR-S to one that sees track time and/or has forced induction. Application, application, application.

And I totally do not get any taxi cab motor oil test. My application is much more harsh on oil. Daily trips of less than 5 miles each way, modified ECU reflash that runs rich (more fuel dilution), driving on the beach in 100F heat at high RPM's to maintain momentum, AVCS and turbo oil screens in place that are known to get blocked with sludge and cause turbo failure, etc. Taxis are pretty much running all day long with very few cold starts.


-Dennis

[viscositosis.rex]

I am happy to report that bitog has apparently rescinded their previous lock out of me. I can again browse their website at home. I will always be passionate about motor oil and this is pure joy. I can dream of someday being allowed to again post on bitog. I would contribute substance and would certainly respect Helen's vision for appropriateness on her website. I would also like to point out that I had no involvement with the previous dispute Helen had with Sustina vendors or with any of the trolls she unfortunately had to deal with. I believe I was collateral damage.


Once again ft86club members, bitog is an extraordinary website and you would be wise to access it. Just ask bluesubie or Shumway or others.

[aakash]

Your passion for motor oil is remarkable...on the flip side ill be changing my oil this weekend with ENOS Sustina OW-20