Torque Dip: Why all the fuss?

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Chad86

Ecutek tune?

Vishnu OFT. The off-the-shelf tunes for a stock car go a long way towards minimizing the torque dip. The E-85 tune is especially entertaining. Because of the OFT tune, I think I have decided on a name for my car. "Squirt", because that's what it does below 4K in the appropriate gear and above 5K, also in the appropriate gear. My job (despite having an AT) is to see it's in the appropriate gear when I want to be involved.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

It's been stated. In normal a to b driving, like 90% of people do, the torque dip is not an issue. In competitive driving it is an issue.

All of you people chiming in with "get a tune" need to understand a couple of things:

1. Tunes are not warranty friendly. Is that really a concern if you are racing your car? If I blew it up on the street or track running a software tune, I would never even consider making a warranty claim.
2. There are things called "rules" in sports. In the cs auto x class, tunes are not legal Wrong car for the job, then?
3. We all don't live a quarter mile at a time. If anyone bought this car for the quarter (stock or modded), that person would almost certainly be a dolt. Unless I'm way off, I think a quarter-mile was the very last thing on the minds of the people who designed the thing. And they nailed the rest of it.

[tahdizzle]

Why are people getting off topic? The topic is the "Torque dip". Not what I use my car for.

Why would people have an issue with the torque dip.

I gave MY reason for why I have an issue with the torque dip. I also mentioned that 90% of people drive a to b, and wouldn't have an issue with the torque dip.

And Tromatic... This is definitely directed specifically at you when I say: Your comment about the twins being the wrong car for CS class in auto X, is the MOST ignorant thing I've read today.

[Quentin]

I was under the impression that the twins were very capable CS cars.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

The TQ dip hit me so hard yesterday I almost cracked my face open on the steering wheel.

It's an over blown issue, like most things.

Odd, given your Nerf post.

[Rayme]

I think the problem here is the majority of FR-S owners are so young they never grew up with the great 90's 4 cylinder cars.

It's a well known fact that that an NA 4 cylinder pretending to be sporty must be revved quite high, and even so then, we had 5 speed manuals, not 6.

The problem here is people are complaining because this little engine actually makes a HUGE percentage of it's maximum torque BEFORE the "dip" and also AFTER (max). Which is quite amazing really.

Just downshift, really.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Rayme

I think the problem here is the majority of FR-S owners are so young they never grew up with the great 90's 4 cylinder cars.

It's a well known fact that that an NA 4 cylinder pretending to be sporty must be revved quite high, and even so then, we had 5 speed manuals, not 6.

The problem here is people are complaining because this little engine actually makes a HUGE percentage of it's maximum torque BEFORE the "dip" and also AFTER (max). Which is quite amazing really.

Just downshift, really.

<Sarcasm>
Dude, how can you expect me to do all that while shuffling around my iPod and posting selfies of me in my racecar for all my homies and bitches? Asking me to be INVOLVED and learn about this shit is just too much. </Sarcasm>

This site has helped me name my car "Squirt" because that's what it does, if you can figure out how to keep it out of the dip. It's really not that hard, and I have an AT. I really do think F&F is mostly to blame.

[tennisfreak]

I love my car but the torque dip sucks.


If you can't feel it then you must be accelerating like a grandma.


For me my foot hits the floor and then it goes like this: YES!!! WTF????? YES!!!!!!!


Then you have to keep her revved high as heck to keep from feeling the torque dip again.


Sometimes its fun to keep her revved up but I don't want to do that all the time.

[tahdizzle]

There is no way to avoid the torque dip from 1st to 2nd. The End.

Thanks for all the "Learn to shift better" posts though.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Monogram

Yes, there is.

The ONLY way to not be in the torque dip from 1st to 2nd is to change the gearing.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

There is no way to avoid the torque dip from 1st to 2nd. The End.

Thanks for all the "Learn to shift better" posts though.

If you shift at 7000+ RPM you don't hit the dip in second

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Care to elaborate? Based on my chart, that puts you at 4000RPM. If you rev match, there should be no reason you can't downshift to first and be ready to pull hard from 4k to 7k.



(x axis is vehicle speed, y axis is engine speed) Ignore the Mustang V6 gearing I have shown.

This was the easiest, probably not the most accurate, graph to show gearing in the twins.

If you shift at redline in 1st, you still hit the dip in 2nd..... Its un avoidable w/o changing the gearing.

Monogram..... reading is fundamental. I specifcally said shifting from 1st to 2nd.

[Acree]

Originally Posted by Monogram

I've logged 3,500 miles on my 2014 FR-S, and I am at a complete loss as to why there are so many threads about the "dreaded torque dip."

Yes I understand what it is, where it resides, and what the dyno charts show.

I cannot for the life of me figure out what real-world issue is caused by the torque dip. The car drives great under the torque dip and into the torque dip during regular commuting, and when I take the great backroads around southwest Washington and want to spin it up, I run it in the 4,500 - 7,500 rpm range with no issues. The manual gearbox in my car always has the right gear for any speed.

Does anyone else NOT have any issues with the torque dip?

You need to daily drive a BRZ/FRS without the torque dip. Ignorance is bliss.

I recently put on a JDL UEL header, OFT tune, and a full catless exhaust, effectively eliminating the torque dip. I cannot even begin to express how much nicer the car is to drive now. It's how the car should have come from the factory.

[krulux]

I feel the biggest reason for the fuss on these cars are.. they look spectacularly sexy fast. I find myself ogling her(my car) when I park, when I'm walking up to her and when I watch other people ogle her.

Cars that usually look this sexy are also brutally fast. Our cars are plenty fast when compared to other NA cars of similar size and displacement...but not compared to similarly sexy, fast looking rides, with 6-8 cylinders and 100+ whp over our stock output.

Our cars are routinely compared to much more powerful cars. I've seen it on this forum and I see it in most articles or videos I watch where the 86 is concerned. At first I was upset at what are basically unfair comparisons... but in retrospect - I now look at it as a compliment.

All that said, if you want real straight line speed.. force induct or head to your nearest auction with $1000 and buy any number of v-6 or older v-8 cars and enjoy the strait-line... Me? I'll be burning the twisties backroads with a huge grin on my face

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

This was the easiest, probably not the most accurate, graph to show gearing in the twins.

If you shift at redline in 1st, you still hit the dip in 2nd..... Its un avoidable w/o changing the gearing.

Monogram..... reading is fundamental. I specifcally said shifting from 1st to 2nd.

That chart is wrong though... I shift at 7400 RPM and always land at 4900 RPMs in second gear, and the tq dip ends at 4700