FR-S Trim levels...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by corbin

Yeah I admit my videos weren't too scientific.

About FR-S being competitive in road racing, I realize that it won't be competitive stock. Not many Japanese cars are when stock, but the cool thing is that they have POTENTIAL, hence them being tuner cars.

I just hope the FR-S has that potential. Even a street modified 240SX or FC3S RX-7 can hang with the big boys in road racing... I see no reason for an FR-S not to be able to do the same (modified, of course) to an even greater extent.

We all hope that. But, this car is an entry-level sports car, not a halo car. Sure the 240sx was entry level in its day but the over-engineering of the late 80's early 90's was a wonderful thing.

Now I think even the fact that I'm assuming it's going to have an EJ series engine is dangerous speculation. And there are many differences between them in terms of power potential. But they are all reasonably inter-changeable.

What worries me is how well can the new transmission, diff and axles handle power if they are only anticipating a 2.0L NA motor with 180 lb-ft of torque. This is my main concern. If the stock motor sucks (god forbid) an EJ257 can go in it. But if this thing starts shredding gears, snapping axles and popping diffs, uh oh. Much harder problem to solve than making power.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by corbin

Do you have any examples of 2.0L inline 4's that are competitive in modern racing? The only thing I can think of is the 4g63...

I think ichitaka05 answered you well enough, but let me just add that the Toyota AZ engine has been doing wonderful things in the drag racing scene (yes, I know, It's 2.4, but whatever).

Originally Posted by Dimman

In all performance aspects MK4 > MK*.

But in my opinion MK3 > MK* in the looks department.

roflmao. Erm. I love the way the Mk3 looks, especially in widebody spec, but srsly... no. ROFL.

Originally Posted by corbin

I'll be disappointed if the engine can't compete with the big boys... Z06's, GT-Rs, etc. From what I've seen, STI's get stomped on straights by pretty much anything RWD... hopefully that's just due to the crappy top end from AWD, but I'm not convinced since EVO's seem to do much better.

Initially I thought the boxer engine would be perfect because of the weight distribution, but lately I've been fantasizing about a high displacement inline 4. 2.0L just doesn't cut it to be competitive in racing. I don't want this car to be another underpowered but fun to drive Honda... (S2000) half the fun for me is cruising around in a car that is a giant killer, and that just isn't possible without a good motor.

a) ROFLMAOWTFBBQTWATWAFFLES!!!!!

b) Neither Evo's nor Sti's have great top end. Not because of their awd, but rather because of their very short gearing.

c) Seriously, you need help. See a shrink. The type of money you'd have to put in the FR-S to make it a Z06 killer (driving skills not withstanding), you might as well but one used. New cars are expensive to milk that kind of performance out of. Most tuner cars don't get to that level until they are close to or already out of production (because then they can be had cheap and replacement engines etc can be had cheap). You need to get a grip on reality. As is said before, speed is expensive.

Originally Posted by Dimman

We all hope that. But, this car is an entry-level sports car, not a halo car. Sure the 240sx was entry level in its day but the over-engineering of the late 80's early 90's was a wonderful thing.

**snip**

What worries me is how well can the new transmission, diff and axles handle power if they are only anticipating a 2.0L NA motor with 180 lb-ft of torque. This is my main concern. If the stock motor sucks (god forbid) an EJ257 can go in it. But if this thing starts shredding gears, snapping axles and popping diffs, uh oh. Much harder problem to solve than making power.

Amen and Amen. The transmission will be pretty much the same aisin 6-speed that is in the RX-8, JDM Altezza, S2000 et al. Start from there as a reference point I guess.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

roflmao. Erm. I love the way the Mk3 looks, especially in widebody spec, but srsly... no. ROFL.

Awww, c'mon...

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by corbin

Yeah, dude, send me to the loony bin because I want this car to be competitive on the track. Only crazy people care about the performance of their car. From where I'm sitting that was a strange outburst... maybe you have some unresolved issues if you telling me I'm crazy and need to "get a grip on reality" because I want Japan to finally start making cars again with the potential to be top-level track cars.

Your point about buying used is valid and adds to what I'm saying. All I'm talking about is the chassis/drive train potential, and when these cars can be had on the cheap and the aftermarket is huge, the possibility of having what RX-7s were a few years ago (minus reliability issues) is there.

Just do lil speculation:
Buying GT-R (R35) is $85~95k
Buying FT86 is $23k~$30k
Now, you still have $55k~$72k to tune FT86 to be faster or fast as GT-R... & if you can't do it with that money and you have problem. Now if you want car that already have 400~500hp car then go ahead and buy GT-R or LFA.

Words "Cheap" & "Fast" never belong together. What you pay is what you get. This math always the fact in auto world

[Midship Runabout]

A- This thread has come alive!

B-Soooooooooo many people are going to be disappointed by this car. Power is not what this car is bout.

3-

Originally Posted by corbin

Yeah, dude, send me to the loony bin because I want this car to be competitive on the track. Only crazy people care about the performance of their car. From where I'm sitting that was a strange outburst... maybe you have some unresolved issues if you telling me I'm crazy and need to "get a grip on reality" because I want Japan to finally start making cars again with the potential to be top-level track cars.

You are crazy if you think that this will be a "giant killer"

D- Dimman, No

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

D- Dimman, No

Really? MKIII is my 2nd fav Supra design.
1. MK4
2. MK3
3. MK1
4. MK2

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

D- Dimman, No

Errr... to which thing?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Words "Cheap" & "Fast" never belong together. What you pay is what you get. This math always the fact in auto world

Isn't the saying this: "Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Pick 2."

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by corbin

That's just not true.

The whole point of tuner cars is VALUE. Even today you can buy a good condition used S14 for $4000 (or RX-7 for $10k), put 20k into it, and be damn close to GT-R lap times. Used Z06's are a bit more expensive but have even more potential... $20k-30k is all it takes to have a street car that can beat a GT-R.

(response is to ichitaka05 post #65)

Well there you go! You can spent $40k~$60k total (buying FT86 & tuning) to beat GT-R. Simple

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by corbin

That's just not true.

The whole point of tuner cars is VALUE. Even today you can buy a good condition used S14 for $4000 (or RX-7 for $10k), put 20k into it, and be damn close to GT-R lap times. Used Z06's are a bit more expensive but have even more potential... $20k-30k is all it takes to have a street car that can beat a GT-R.

(response is to ichitaka05 post #65)

So you're planning to wait 15 years until this thing is $4000? And all the motors to swap in it are also old and affordable. This is the point that I think is trying to be made.

Like I mentioned earlier, the RX7 was a halo car when it came out. This car isn't. There will be a bigger performance gap to make up. Think of it's concept namesake, the AE86. You have to throw a lot more time and money at a used Hachi-Roku to make it GT-R fast, than at a used JZA80 Supra twin-turbo.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by corbin

That's just not true.

The whole point of tuner cars is VALUE. Even today you can buy a good condition used S14 for $4000 (or RX-7 for $10k), put 20k into it, and be damn close to GT-R lap times. Used Z06's are a bit more expensive but have even more potential... $20k-30k is all it takes to have a street car that can beat a GT-R.

(response is to ichitaka05 post #65)

How come you keep resulting back to a Z06? That's apples and oranges in comparison.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by corbin

Because right now its the performance benchmark. Nothing else comes close to its performance at a reasonable price... GT-R's and Viper's are close in terms of performance but they cost twice as much.

I think you have the wrong idea of what this car is supposed to be. It will likely be competing with the current Miata and that's about it. If we are lucky it will be track-competitive with a Porsche Cayman (not the 'S' though).

[MtnDrvr86]

Originally Posted by corbin

Because right now its the performance benchmark. Nothing else comes close to its performance at a reasonable price... GT-R's and Viper's are close in terms of performance but they cost twice as much.

The Z06 is a great car but it also starts at $74,000, 10 grand less than the GTR, but its a completly different car than what the FT86 is supposed to be.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

So you're planning to wait 15 years until this thing is $4000? And all the motors to swap in it are also old and affordable. This is the point that I think is trying to be made.

Like I mentioned earlier, the RX7 was a halo car when it came out. This car isn't. There will be a bigger performance gap to make up. Think of it's concept namesake, the AE86. You have to throw a lot more time and money at a used Hachi-Roku to make it GT-R fast, than at a used JZA80 Supra twin-turbo.

Also don't forget the driving skill too. Like this vid, 200 & 165 AE86 vs 280 R34... I say, it's the driving skill makes the difference in the track. lol
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