Driving "feel"

[track junkie]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Really? I find my Cayman S to be more communicative at any speed than the BRZs that I've driven, but I have the old Cayman with the hydraulic steering, and I've heard the new electric steering isn't as good. That is a shame though - I'd be curious to hear your opinion on a 987 as a point of comparison.

While I had a 987.1 for 4 years, it was a few years ago.
My comparison with my 2014 Cayman S and my BRZ were back to back, so it's much easier for me to judge.

The BRZ's communication was greatly improved by front crash bolts and a performance alignment. My new Cayman S is set with the factory alignment and tire pressure settings, that's part of the reason.

The BRZ allows more road vibrations to pass through, in comparison, the 2014 Cayman S, blocks almost all of the road vibrations. That makes my 2014 Cayman S feel dead or detached, it almost feels to me like I could be flying as opposed to driving. I prefer my BRZ, it feels more alive and less like a Honda Accord or a 2014 Cayman S.

[Ozzman]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

Superlight 16" rims (5kg) with light moderate grip tyres (8kg) (my next mod). Solid steering bushes.
A tight and precise chassis is not necessarily the same as a feelsome chassis, in fact more movement can be beneficial as long as it communicates with the driver...

Does changing the offset of the wheels help as well? I'm tempted to try 20mm spacers up front to see if it helps transmit more feedback from surface imperfections in the road.

[sc0urge]

Great article, thanks for sharing

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by Ozzman

Does changing the offset of the wheels help as well? I'm tempted to try 20mm spacers up front to see if it helps transmit more feedback from surface imperfections in the road.

Will help with some steering kickback from bumps, however it is debatable if that is usefull information or if it actually hides more subtle information about grip.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by 2013GTRNate

To add a few the Miata and S2000 are also contenders.

Agreed.

We traded our Miata for our BRZ. We kept our S2000, but I wish the S2000 steering was as good as the BRZ, which is clearly superior in feel. (They're both EPS systems.)

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by track junkie

If you find something with more driving feel on the street that a BRZ, let me know.

There are plenty of street cars which provide more feel than the BRZ. Some of them are even cheaper than the BRZ to boot!

Now, if you were to say, "new cars," that would change things a lot. That's the great thing about the BRZ: it's a practical, new car that feels more like an old car.

I totally agree with Franchitti: all my favorite road cars are "slow," but full of tactile feedback. One of my favorite cars is my mom's 1970 911T, a car which-- at almost 17 pounds per horsepower-- makes even our cars look positively fast. It's slower than the BRZ; exhibits more body roll than the BRZ; has softer, taller sidewalls than the BRZ; hasn't got power-anything; and is way harder to get round a corner smoothly than the BRZ. Not only is it quite tricky to drive properly, when you drive it wrong it shits all over you. Over-brake for a corner and it shits on you, and you come out of the corner slower than a horse-dawn carriage. Under-brake for a corner and it shits on you-- and you'll shit yourself-- as you start to either plow or spin off the road depending on how you respond to this pants-browning moment. Apply throttle or brake sloppily and it shits on you as the suspension gets all unsettled. Apply steering at the wrong rate and it shits on you as the suspension gets all unsettled. Every time you fuck up-- even a tiny bit-- it shits on you. Fuck up a lot and it shits you into a ditch. It makes doing 80mph on any non-freeway feel genuinely unnerving. It just continues to shit on you and complain about your driving and just generally keeps slapping you around until you start driving it properly. But, when you do manage to hit a corner just right, the car feels absolutely sublimely balanced and makes you feel like an absolute fucking super hero. It's the greatest car ever.

[Tgionet]

You just perfectly described why old 911s are so fucking brilliant

[n2oinferno]

[track junkie]

Dario sure seems to be describing the Toyota and Subaru effort with the BRZ/FR-S.

It'll take a brave car company to say 'sod the Nurburgring lap time, sod the 0-60mph and the top speed - let's focus on feel and connection'...

The BRZ/FR-S is definitely a rare find in the new car market. You better pick up one while you can, they may not be around for long.

[BoxerRearZenith]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Good article. I find it interesting he doesn't do track days. Most pro drivers I've seen love to drive at the track, whether being paid or not.

It's like asking an IT guy to fix computers on a Saturday. Can he do it? Sure. Would he want to do it? Probably not.

[BoxerRearZenith]

Originally Posted by track junkie

Dario sure seems to be describing the Toyota and Subaru effort with the BRZ/FR-S.


The BRZ/FR-S is definitely a rare find in the new car market. You better pick up one while you can, they may not be around for long.

If there's a market need for this model, the companies are going to keep making them. The evolution might mean that the 14 models (and even the 2015) might become coveted but that's a different story.

[spitz]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

There are plenty of street cars which provide more feel than the BRZ. Some of them are even cheaper than the BRZ to boot!

Now, if you were to say, "new cars," that would change things a lot. That's the great thing about the BRZ: it's a practical, new car that feels more like an old car.

I totally agree with Franchitti: all my favorite road cars are "slow," but full of tactile feedback. One of my favorite cars is my mom's 1970 911T, a car which-- at almost 17 pounds per horsepower-- makes even our cars look positively fast. It's slower than the BRZ; exhibits more body roll than the BRZ; has softer, taller sidewalls than the BRZ; hasn't got power-anything; and is way harder to get round a corner smoothly than the BRZ. Not only is it quite tricky to drive properly, when you drive it wrong it shits all over you. Over-brake for a corner and it shits on you, and you come out of the corner slower than a horse-dawn carriage. Under-brake for a corner and it shits on you-- and you'll shit yourself-- as you start to either plow or spin off the road depending on how you respond to this pants-browning moment. Apply throttle or brake sloppily and it shits on you as the suspension gets all unsettled. Apply steering at the wrong rate and it shits on you as the suspension gets all unsettled. Every time you fuck up-- even a tiny bit-- it shits on you. Fuck up a lot and it shits you into a ditch. It makes doing 80mph on any non-freeway feel genuinely unnerving. It just continues to shit on you and complain about your driving and just generally keeps slapping you around until you start driving it properly. But, when you do manage to hit a corner just right, the car feels absolutely sublimely balanced and makes you feel like an absolute fucking super hero. It's the greatest car ever.

^ Winning.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Lotus elise?

Will beat the crap out of you. From those who have owned one, the general consensus seems to be "An insanely fun little death machine that you do NOT want to daily or drive for long distances."

A driver's car I'd LOVE to see Toyota resurrect is the MR2, but in the 3rd gen form, sans soft cover (keep it a coupe like gen2). It had lower body weight than the 2nd gen MR2. I've talked to a few owners and they've loved the car.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by BoxerRearZenith

It's like asking an IT guy to fix computers on a Saturday. Can he do it? Sure. Would he want to do it? Probably not.

I would say, closer to asking Kevin Durant to play a pickup game.