Is the brz/frs too expensive?

[Chad11491]

I think it's a little overpriced. The limited BRZ sits on lots at nearly 29k, FRS with tacked on options at 26k. Now I don't think anyone pays that for brz's so I think they're ok. 26k for a "loaded" brz is reasonable, but I think the frs 6mt should start around 23-24. Joe public sees 200hp for 26k and goes and buys an ecoboost or v6 mustang because hurr durr 300hp.

[humdizzle]

yeah if you're trying to justify the price of the brz with objective numbers its not gonna happen.

my 2001 celica gts made 100hp/liter too, 8300rpm redline, weighed less at 2500 lbs, had leather seats, yokohama advans, projector headlights, etc etc... and that was like 14 years ago. i think they even run the same 1/4 mile.

but the brz feels wayyyy better than that car in every way.

[Mr.Impreza]

If were talking about overpriced, this thread should be moved the BMW forums

[svtfever]

I think they are about 2-3k overpriced

[Who8myrice]

All scion does not have reserve or hold back for dealership. What more do you want?

[JoeSubaru]

in the past few years I have owned:

2002 WRX - sold
2008 Miata - sold
2007 STI - still own
2007 Lotus Elise - Sold
1977 Trans Am - still own
1973 Corvette - sold

I bought my BRZ about a month ago (I work at a Subie Dealership in Texas). This car and the maybe the Miata are the only cars that put a smile on my face on a consistent basis.

My STI is nicely modded - (356WHP/384WTQ) and I choose to drive the BRZ, not because it's new, but because I can have so much fun revving it up and getting her to redline.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

I think it's a little overpriced. The limited BRZ sits on lots at nearly 29k, FRS with tacked on options at 26k. Now I don't think anyone pays that for brz's so I think they're ok. 26k for a "loaded" brz is reasonable, but I think the frs 6mt should start around 23-24. Joe public sees 200hp for 26k and goes and buys an ecoboost or v6 mustang because hurr durr 300hp.

Originally Posted by svtfever

I think they are about 2-3k overpriced

Please provide the following Toyota/Subaru numbers that you referenced to make that determination:
Total R&D costs (remember these are ongoing)
Capital expenditures for new tooling
Line down time costs for change over
Equipment depreciation
Equipment maintenance costs
Utilities costs
Labour costs including wages, benefits, compensation, employment taxes, training, PPE
Parts costs
Property taxes, licencing fees, other governmental levies
Shipping costs
Warranty costs
Profit margin


Without knowing every single dollar that is spent to build them there is not a soul on this forum that can honestly say "they are overpriced".


The car companies are not charities they are for profit corporations that set the prices based on a very complex set of numbers. They do not just pick a number out of a hat and say "we will charge this".


Wanting to or thinking you should pay less is not the same as being overpriced.

[Chad11491]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Please provide the following Toyota/Subaru numbers that you referenced to make that determination:
Total R&D costs (remember these are ongoing)
Capital expenditures for new tooling
Line down time costs for change over
Equipment depreciation
Equipment maintenance costs
Utilities costs
Labour costs including wages, benefits, compensation, employment taxes, training, PPE
Parts costs
Property taxes, licencing fees, other governmental levies
Shipping costs
Warranty costs
Profit margin


Without knowing every single dollar that is spent to build them there is not a soul on this forum that can honestly say "they are overpriced".


The car companies are not charities they are for profit corporations that set the prices based on a very complex set of numbers. They do not just pick a number out of a hat and say "we will charge this".


Wanting to or thinking you should pay less is not the same as being overpriced.

Maybe I should say that from the view point of your average joe, they're not the best bang for buck out there. That at or less than 3k more than a brz limited you have multiple cars with 100+ more hp and decent handlers. You have to really want what the twins offer for it to be a good value, which if you're here, you must think it is. But it is competing for sales with very stiff competition. I don't care what their costs are. I care about the price I pay, which is why I used dealer $$$. No one goes to a dealership and thinks man, I would like to pay about 3k less than this msrp, but I guess this is fine since they had so much r&d costs.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Please provide the following Toyota/Subaru numbers that you referenced to make that determination:
Total R&D costs (remember these are ongoing)
Capital expenditures for new tooling
Line down time costs for change over
Equipment depreciation
Equipment maintenance costs
Utilities costs
Labour costs including wages, benefits, compensation, employment taxes, training, PPE
Parts costs
Property taxes, licencing fees, other governmental levies
Shipping costs
Warranty costs
Profit margin


Without knowing every single dollar that is spent to build them there is not a soul on this forum that can honestly say "they are overpriced".


The car companies are not charities they are for profit corporations that set the prices based on a very complex set of numbers. They do not just pick a number out of a hat and say "we will charge this".


Wanting to or thinking you should pay less is not the same as being overpriced.

To be fair, they will also price a car at where they feel the market will bear it. Consider:

Subaru can build the car on the other side of the planet from me.
Transport it to a dockyard and load it onto a ship.
Ship it across the largest ocean in the world.
Unload it and put it onto a train.
Move it by train more than halfway across the continent.
Unload it again and put it on a truck.
Haul it hundreds of miles to deliver it to a dealership down the street from my house.
And STILL charge less for it than if I had bought one down the street from the factory in Gunma Japan.

Welcome to the global economy.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

I think it's a little overpriced. The limited BRZ sits on lots at nearly 29k, FRS with tacked on options at 26k. Now I don't think anyone pays that for brz's so I think they're ok. 26k for a "loaded" brz is reasonable, but I think the frs 6mt should start around 23-24. Joe public sees 200hp for 26k and goes and buys an ecoboost or v6 mustang because hurr durr 300hp.

Just FYI a base 2016 FR-S with a MT and no options MSRP is $26,075

http://pressroom.scion.com/releases/...rs+pricing.htm

The Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of the six-speed manual transmission FR-S is $25,305 while the six-speed sequential automatic transmission with paddle shifters and Dynamic Rev Management technology is $26,405. This price excludes the destination, processing and handling (DPH) fee of $770.

Edit: To the point of the thread I still don't think it's over priced you need to literally double your budget or go used and/or exotic to find a car that handles as well in the broadest sense of the term with the lone exception of the last 15+ years being the Miata + S2000 with obvious tradeoffs placing them squarely in separate niches. RX-8 could also be a competitor but now that we're seeing used cars regularly under $20k the 86 nailed it imo.

[SmartedPanda]

Compared to other cars, yes a little.

Decent article from the FRS forums

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88061

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

To be fair, they will also price a car at where they feel the market will bear it. Consider:

Subaru can build the car on the other side of the planet from me.
Transport it to a dockyard and load it onto a ship.
Ship it across the largest ocean in the world.
Unload it and put it onto a train.
Move it by train more than halfway across the continent.
Unload it again and put it on a truck.
Haul it hundreds of miles to deliver it to a dealership down the street from my house.
And STILL charge less for it than if I had bought one down the street from the factory in Gunma Japan.

Welcome to the global economy.

Yep! But I wasn't going down the different countries different prices road because that gets really messy. The price is still based on the costs the only variable to different countries is profit margin (and even that can be hugely deceiving depending what a country charges them to sell their product there).
In Canada we would like nothing more than to pay what the US boys do.

[dpgfunk]

yes

[extrashaky]

It's really very simple:

If you think the car is overpriced, don't fucking buy it.

Problem solved!