Is the brz/frs too expensive?

[Longhorn248]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Awesome.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by huma

Initially, they wanted this vehicle to start out in the low 20's and that's what got a lot of people excited. 200 hp, rwd, toyobaru quality, good styling, sold! Instead they end up in the $25k to $30k range.

For what you get, I don't really think this car will be as popular as most of us think it will be. I think that by the end of the year, dealerships will be selling this vehicle under invoice...and that's probably when I might bite. What I really want is 240-260 hp, better suspension, aka sti version for low 30's and I'll bite. Otoh, for low to mid 30's...you can purchase a wrx sti that's bigger, faster, just not as fun to drive.

Basically, after the initial hype/demand, I think sales will stagger because toyobaru priced this vehicle too high. What do you guys think? Do you think they can sustain a high demand at this price?

I never felt this car would be a huge seller. I'm actually surprised by how well it's done in sales so far.

This car is exactly what I want and originally I set my "max" at 30K. It fell within that so I'm perfectly fine with it.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

I would argue that, technically, it does. If that's what you want out of your sports car, and there's nothing else on the market that costs less than a new home, that makes this car more valuable to you. With all the absurdly high horsepower muscle cars, and insanely fast rally-car specials, Toyota/ Subaru managed to find a missing niche in the sports car market: a car focused more on simplicity and interaction with driver than speed.

And of course, seeing as there's not much competition in that field at the moment, they're going to charge accordingly for it.

Me? I'm going to pray that sales are good enough on this car that it prompts the other Japanese car companies to follow suit. Imagine... a coupe version of the Mazdaspeed MX-5; a revival of the Silvia name for Nissan; maybe even Suzuki could reintroduce the Cappuccino, and bring it to the states. All small, RWD coupes focused more on fun than speed. And what's that? You say the field's too crowded now, and there's a pricing war going on? Mmmm..... <purr....>

Don't wake me, I like my happy fantasy land.

Completely agree!

[huma]

Originally Posted by Grimlock

Back in 2008, the Yen was 105 Yen per American dollar. At $20k dollars, that's 2,100,000 yen. In 2012, there are only 80 Yen per American Dollar.

(20,000 Dollars) * (105 Yen/Dollar) = 2,100,000 Yen.

(2,100,000 Yen) / (80 Yen/Dollar) = 26,250 American Dollars.

So they met their price target of ~2,000,000 Yen. It's just that the American Dollar has dropped in the meantime. It's hard to blame Subaru and Toyota for that.

Good point, I forgot about the exchange rate. It was just a thought lingering in my mind for awhile. With people canceling their pre-orders, I was curious to what everyone else thought about the pricing.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Yup. Which is why we pay so little to begin with. If people think the BRZ/FR-S cost too much, they should try paying for it in the UK or Japan.

Market forces at work. It's amazing that you can go to Gunma Japan and buy one of these right down the street from the plant, or have it shipped here across the pacific on boat, then put on a train, and finally a car carrier to be dropped off at any dealership in the US and save several grand.

[ayilar]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

With all the absurdly high horsepower muscle cars, and insanely fast rally-car specials, Toyota/ Subaru managed to find a missing niche in the sports car market: a car focused more on simplicity and interaction with driver than speed.

That's exactly what got me to order a BRZ.

[dsgerbc]

Show me cheaper RWD coupe with leather/alcantara+HID+LSD+Navi and we'll talk.
I think BRZ is bargain. FR-S is a bit less of a bargain since V6 Mustang + Perf pack (to get LSD) will be cheaper.

[si]

Lets count ourselves lucky that we are not paying European prices of 29990 Euro or $38500 USD!

[MRZ415]

My only gripe about the car is that I ended up with the Subaru BRZ,
not that I dislike it but I rather order the vehicle with a Toyota badge,
but I REALLY did not want to order the car with a SCION badge.

I guess there is stigma attached to the SCION brand to the point that
I do not want people to think I am some punk kid, so maybe its because
I am OLDER now(27) because I vaguely remember how I liked the Scion
xB or the Scion xA when it first came out around 10 years ago.

[MF_DEUCE]

Originally Posted by huma

Initially, they wanted this vehicle to start out in the low 20's and that's what got a lot of people excited. 200 hp, rwd, toyobaru quality, good styling, sold! Instead they end up in the $25k to $30k range.

For what you get, I don't really think this car will be as popular as most of us think it will be. I think that by the end of the year, dealerships will be selling this vehicle under invoice...and that's probably when I might bite. What I really want is 240-260 hp, better suspension, aka sti version for low 30's and I'll bite. Otoh, for low to mid 30's...you can purchase a wrx sti that's bigger, faster, just not as fun to drive.

Basically, after the initial hype/demand, I think sales will stagger because toyobaru priced this vehicle too high. What do you guys think? Do you think they can sustain a high demand at this price?

Highly disagree with you sir on the price set by Scion at $24.9k, it is a fair price for the PERFORMANCE of the car. Compare that to a miata, different car yet their PERFORMANCE is on par.
I believe if this car is going to tank its going to be because the dealerships are asking for way too much. Ive just experienced this yesterday as the dealership I went to wanted $4k OVER msrp.
As for Subaru, I think any mark up is unjust for the fact its already $1k more than the FRS and comes standard with a little more features.

Originally Posted by MRZ415

My only gripe about the car is that I ended up with the Subaru BRZ,
not that I dislike it but I rather order the vehicle with a Toyota badge,
but I REALLY did not want to order the car with a SCION badge.

I guess there is stigma attached to the SCION brand to the point that
I do not want people to think I am some punk kid, so maybe its because
I am OLDER now(27) because I vaguely remember how I liked the Scion
xB or the Scion xA when it first came out around 10 years ago.

smh. No offense, but that kind of mentality is a little naive. I'm buying the Scion based off its performance, not its makers or badge. If you're ashamed of a badge that represents a group of people you dont want to be associated with then just dont associate yourself with those people. simple as that. There is always a REBADGE option!

[Sonex51]

If you're looking at the power output of the car, you have to look at the weight too.
I'm personally a late arrival to the BRZ scene, though I do have a pre-order in now.
Originally I was looking at a 2013 GC 2.0T. It looked like a solid RWD platform that would be a blast to drive.
When I actually tested one... there were quite a few things that disappointed me enough to halt my purchase plans.

Specifically, the shifter is gummy feeling and lacks the solid sense of engagement I crave every time I shift.
The rev hangs (for emissions) are incredibly annoying - and yeah I know I will be able to chip that later, but I shouldn't have to.
No LSD unless you take an R-Spec with a disappointing interior or a Track model available only in the 3.8.
The R-Spec interior is VERY stripped down.
Then there's the weight thing I mentioned above... Hyundai's website rates the GC at 3362-3492 lbs (2.0T).
That 274 HP begins to mean a lot less as the weight approaches Mustang numbers.

Was it a fun car to drive? Absolutely! However it felt very tamed, like Hyundai meant for there to be better experiences on the road.

In arriving at the BRZ as a vehicle of choice I was looking for a good driving experience.
To me, that means extracting the most enjoyment out of my daily drives within the legal limits (and occasionally slightly outside them).
That means satisfaction must start from the moment I first put the car in 1st, and begin to feel my connection to the road as I drive off to my day.
And for the power issues... 200 HP into a car that weighs ~2750lbs would translate into about 250 hp in a vehicle of weight similar to the GC 2.0T.
Not to mention the BRZ will have the LSD AND an interior worth spending much of your life in.
I think the price is pretty much spot on for a well-engineered machine that I actually want to be in.

I'm a BRZ shopper / future owner.
I don't care arbitrary 0-60 or 1/4 mile times.
I'm not looking for a vehicle that I will street race.
I'm looking for the satisfaction that can be found in the routine and the thrill which can be extracted from the mundane.

[Lighting Red]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Show me cheaper RWD coupe with leather/alcantara+HID+LSD+Navi and we'll talk.
I think BRZ is bargain. FR-S is a bit less of a bargain since V6 Mustang + Perf pack (to get LSD) will be cheaper.

This ^^^, damnit, this right here.

For those that do not understand, read the above again until you burn it into your skulls. If anybody else thinks the BRZ is overpriced, please go on MINIUSA.com and build me a Cooper S with the same accoutrements. Hell, pick any car that offers the same driving experience and do that for me. And before anybody thinks, "same driving experience," is some sort of cop-out, I am willing to be that this forum would be much less populated if the car did not deliver on that end. In other words, you can bet your ass that the driving experience of this car will be/is a major selling point.

As a matter of fact, not to pick on MINI too much (because I actually like them), but why are they so expensive? Talk about platform sharing between models?! That's almost what all MINIs are; differenet variants of the same chassis. What's their excuse?

[WRXGuy1]

The only thing that has me debating is whether the WRX is a better choice, granted they are two different animals it's a hard choice when they are basically the same price.