My 86 Experience at Tokyo Dealership. Full TRD trim 86 on display

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

I keep reading this exact same criticism in several places. I wonder how much of this is our perception of the Scion brand? (Mind you, I am NOT immune to this effect! Even recognizing it in myself, I can't stop it.) I mean, yeah... the Scion base stereo looks like it was pulled out of a 90's model Pontiac, all big and plasticky looking. And yeah, we didn't get the leather options. But to the best of my understanding, aside from those two things, the interiors are otherwise identical. Same panels, same seats, same gauges, same steering wheel, etc...

That's how important brand image is. Notice I'm not saying, "We're all being dumb, and should just get over it." No, it's human psychology; there's whole libraries written on how our perception of a brand influences how we think about a product. Which is why I'm worried so much about this car being a Scion product in America; some people (Toyota included, apparently) feel that introducing this car to the Scion lineup will improve the public's perception of the Scion brand, but I'm more of the opinion that doing this will instead lower the public's perception of the car. And I don't want that, not because I'm afraid people will think I'm driving an uncool car, but because if people don't think the car is any good then they won't buy it. Then if sales aren't good, there won't be any improvements made. No STi version, no TRD superchargers. Other companies will then steer clear of offering sports cars, and before long it's the early 2000's all over again... AND I CAN'T GO BACK THERE!!! I JUST CAN'T!!! ... sorry, lost it for a bit. <casts soap-opera style meaningful glare at Nissan from across the room>

Just my 2 yen's worth. I am kinda curious if anybody out there actually does have a favorable view of Scion, but's just too intimidated to speak up on here. Auto forums do tend to turn into echo chambers after a while.

I must say I haven't got a chance to see an actual car, but just from the photo comparison, the FR-S seems to have the same interior as the lower two trims of 86. From toyota.jp, you can see that GT and GT limited (excuse me if I wrote these two wrong) of 86 have different (and better) instrument panel (ressembles more closely to the BRZ interior), which is unavailable in FR-S. I agree with you on the point that it's a shame that Toyota branded the 86 with Scion in the US, which definitely downgraded the image of the car. Why does Scion need to exist in the US market? Why people in Europe get to drive the Toyota 86 instead of Scion FR-S, which the name of the car itself is already quite silly. There are a lot of "front engine, RWD, sports cars" out there, so the name FR-S literally has no significant means for the car nor heritage. Not to knock on the car. I think the car is great, but I would rather get the BRZ (I want the push-botton start!!!).

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

I must say I haven't got a chance to see an actual car, but just from the photo comparison, the FR-S seems to have the same interior as the lower two trims of 86. From toyota.jp, you can see that GT and GT limited (excuse me if I wrote these two wrong) of 86 have different (and better) instrument panel (ressembles more closely to the BRZ interior), which is unavailable in FR-S. I agree with you on the point that it's a shame that Toyota branded the 86 with Scion in the US, which definitely downgraded the image of the car. Why does Scion need to exist in the US market? Why people in Europe get to drive the Toyota 86 instead of Scion FR-S, which the name of the car itself is already quite silly. There are a lot of "front engine, RWD, sports cars" out there, so the name FR-S literally has no significant means for the car nor heritage. Not to knock on the car. I think the car is great, but I would rather get the BRZ (I want the push-botton start!!!).

Nah, we got the most of the GT interior. The red stitching on the upholstery plus the red panels on the seats are a GT and GT-Limited feature (the top two trim levels), as well as the white-background gauges. The FR-S has all of that. What we don't have from that level of car is the keyless-start or navigation, which I don't get. I mean, why did we get a 90% GT, 10% G mashup? Seems like it would have been easier to just give us a straight up GT. Oh well...

Sadly, Americans don't do "heritage" unless it involves cowboys or shooting British people. And since the name "Wrangler" was already taken by Jeep, our only other option was the Scion 2013 "Cornwallis-Snuffer"... and that just didn't roll of the tongue too easily. I kid, I kid...

Nah, I wish they'd kept the 86 monicker as well, but it's just too depressing to know how many supposed car-people in America don't get the reference. I've talked with 5 different salespeople on the phone, and not a one of them knew about the connection to the AE86 (or even what that was), and only two of them knew about the 86mm piston stroke.

[YukiHachiRoku]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

I'm afraid people will think I'm driving an uncool car, but because if people don't think the car is any good then they won't buy it. I am kinda curious if anybody out there actually does have a favorable view of Scion, but's just too intimidated to speak up on here. Auto forums do tend to turn into echo chambers after a while.

Well guess what? The car is good! And many people will miss out on it because of "brand labeling". Their loss! Like I posted in the other threads, I won't be rebadging this car, and I didn't buy it to make society think "I'm cool". As long as I can have a shit eating grin on my face when driving it is all I ask for. When the day comes where I no longer recieve smiles from the car, I will get one that will, despite what society thinks of my badge.

I am a little sad that I don't get HID's and a nicer interior. If I cannot bear the eyesore of the stock stereo unit (despite it being a pioneer and sounding good when hooked up to aux ipod port) I'll go get an aftermarket one. As for the climate control dials, I guess I'm fucked on that one.

Scion did leave a good taste in my mouth with fixed pricing, college grad program ($1000 savings, and zero down, no payments for 3 months), and the two year maintanence program. So I'll stick my neck out on a limb and say Scion! When society sees a bunch of old dudes rocking FR-S's they will wonder what they are missing and might drop in for a test drive to see what all the buzz is about. And then, maybe the brand can start to get a better rep once they get that feeling.

(still want that sexy TRD decked out ft-86 jdm from the dealer cartman)

[Prava]

Shoulda asked her out, dude!

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by YukiHachiRoku

(still want that sexy TRD decked out ft-86 jdm from the dealer cartman)

Fine, fine... I'll see if I can't free up some room in the carry-on luggage. Although...
TSA: "Sir... is that a car in your bag?"
Me: "...yes."
TSA: "Does it have less than 3.5 oz of fluids in it?"
Me: <checks oil gauge> "...damn."
There you have it, Yuki: the reason you can't have nice things? Terrorism.

And well played on Scion's high points, good sir.

Originally Posted by Prava

Shoulda asked her out, dude!

I don't know what would have been worse in that situation: her saying no, or her saying yes with me knowing I've got less than a week left here (and a busy week at that). Just my luck she would have been a nymphomaniac street-racer trust-fund baby, or something.

[DubGUy]

You're awesome!!! Being in Japan= More awesomeness!!!!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

You can't really compare Scion to Apple, because it would be an insult to Apple. Apple makes beautifully designed, top quality products, while Toyota makes crappy, cheap versions of some cars and brands them as Scion in the US.

Actually in some ways it is a fair comparison. Apple insists on "monospec" products and actually frowns on you modifying them to the point where they lock it down so you can't. Scion, at least, encourages you to mod their products. I'd also debate the "top quality" aspect of Apple's products. Every Apple product I've owned has fail during the warranty period or (even worse) shortly after the end of the period.

And I know

[CountChoculitis]

Yeah.. Scion sucks... I hate cheaper, better equipped versions of Toyotas, with the same warranties and services................. Who likes quality products at reasonable prices...?

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by CountChoculitis

Yeah.. Scion sucks... I hate cheaper, better equipped versions of Toyotas, with the same warranties and services................. Who likes quality products at reasonable prices...?

C'mon, be fair! I never said Scions (the cars) suck; I said the brand itself has a bad image. And I'll lay that 110% on the shoulders of their marketing department.

I actually always wanted one of the first generation XB's (which was the BB in Japan) but couldn't really justify it. Then I got excited when I saw the new BB's that came out in Japan, and thought, "Oh yes... I'll make up some reason why I need one of those!" ...but we ended up getting some the Corolla Rumion as the new XB. Bait and switch, Scion... bait and switch!

That's my only real complaint about their vehicles. Which I guess if I think about it, is another corporate decision, not a vehicle deficiency per se.

[dori.]

Dunno, I would have taken the chance to drive the car. You have a good conscience.

But, bro, YOLO, fuck it.

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by dori.

Dunno, I would have taken the chance to drive the car. You have a good conscience.

But, bro, YOLO, fuck it.

The sole reason I didn't? If on the off chance I got caught driving without a license here, they'd boot me out of the country and it would be a long, looooooong time before they'd let me back in (and forget about ever getting to live here again!)

Measured against that, it's worth it to wait a month or so to drive my own.

[CountChoculitis]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

C'mon, be fair! I never said Scions (the cars) suck; I said the brand itself has a bad image. And I'll lay that 110% on the shoulders of their marketing department.

I actually always wanted one of the first generation XB's (which was the BB in Japan) but couldn't really justify it. Then I got excited when I saw the new BB's that came out in Japan, and thought, "Oh yes... I'll make up some reason why I need one of those!" ...but we ended up getting some the Corolla Rumion as the new XB. Bait and switch, Scion... bait and switch!

That's my only real complaint about their vehicles. Which I guess if I think about it, is another corporate decision, not a vehicle deficiency per se.

I agree that some of the marketing has been rather bad. But it does get a little old hearing all the shit talk people have for Scion online, and in person.. lol I rebadged my tC as a Toyota, because, it is... a Toyota. Even says so on the registration. [Make: Toyota - Model: Scion tC] But I think I'll leave the FR-S badged as a Scion, and be proud.

I <3 haters.

(or de-badge it all together... haha]

[Klinn]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

I am kinda curious if anybody out there actually does have a favorable view of Scion, but's just too intimidated to speak up on here. Auto forums do tend to turn into echo chambers after a while.

I guess I have a favorable view of Scion.

None of their previous cars appealed to me, so I've never paid much attention to the brand and never picked up on any Scion group-hate. Hearing about the FR-S, I went into it with a neutral view of the brand, and have been pleasantly surprised.

My only concern is that, since it's intended as a lower-price brand, the manufacturer will be reluctant to offer a more expensive version with TRD supercharger etc. They may concerned about people just rejecting a higher end Scion outright.

BTW, thanks for the original post! A great read.

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by YukiHachiRoku

When society sees a bunch of old dudes rocking FR-S's they will wonder what they are missing and might drop in for a test drive to see what all the buzz is about. And then, maybe the brand can start to get a better rep once they get that feeling.

You won't see too many old dudes driving the FR-S for sure. It's just like you're not seeing too many of them driving Civic Si, are you?

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Actually in some ways it is a fair comparison. Apple insists on "monospec" products and actually frowns on you modifying them to the point where they lock it down so you can't. Scion, at least, encourages you to mod their products. I'd also debate the "top quality" aspect of Apple's products. Every Apple product I've owned has fail during the warranty period or (even worse) shortly after the end of the period.

And I know

Haha...I too have the same problem with Apple. I remember I exchange my iPhone 3g three times within the first year due to dead pixels, dead battery, you name it...

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

C'mon, be fair! I never said Scions (the cars) suck; I said the brand itself has a bad image. And I'll lay that 110% on the shoulders of their marketing department.

I actually always wanted one of the first generation XB's (which was the BB in Japan) but couldn't really justify it. Then I got excited when I saw the new BB's that came out in Japan, and thought, "Oh yes... I'll make up some reason why I need one of those!" ...but we ended up getting some the Corolla Rumion as the new XB. Bait and switch, Scion... bait and switch!

That's my only real complaint about their vehicles. Which I guess if I think about it, is another corporate decision, not a vehicle deficiency per se.

Agree. Some people are missing the point here. I'm not knocking on the car itself. As I mentioned a few times in this thread, the 86 is a great car. The only problem is the Scion brand image and why Toyota decided to badge the 86 (which is arguably the most exciting car they have come up with in recently years) with Scion in the US market, and to make bunch of nice stuff, namely TRD package, in Japan unavailable here in the US, at least for now.

Btw, why don't you get the BRZ instead? I really wonder how "different" can BRZ and FR-S feel when you actually drive them.