These cars are fast

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Chad86

I think it may end up like the last generation of Celica where they unfortunately stop production and discontinue the vehicle due to "not enough sale"

A typical life cycle of a Japanese sports car..

[jjaisli]

Well, it really is true, expectations change over time. When I first started to drive, in 1986 (), a car with the performance of the FR-S/BRZ in stock form, was considered somewhat exotic.

If we just compare acceleration, the twins would run relatively neck and neck (at least, up to say, 80~100 mph) with a 1986:

- Porsche 911 Carrera
- Chevrolet Iroc-Z (with the 305)

And you might just nose out in front of Mustang GT 5.0 or Pontiac Firebird. No joke.

And maybe just slightly behind say, a Ferrari 328 GTS. Assuming he got a good start and didn't fudge the gear change.

200-hp and 0-60 in 6.3 seconds were pretty impressive performance stats in my high school days. And gosh, I'm not THAT old. If you could time travel with a bone stock V-6 Camry back to the mid 80s, you'd probably win a lot of pink slips. As ridiculous as it sounds.

But every year since, the numbers have been building and people's expectations rise. My last car, a slightly modified Mazda Speed 3 with about 300-hp, would have destroyed almost anything (new) on the road back then.

That said, numbers and stats are just that. And I've never been one to chase numbers. The way the car feels, how it handles, it's balance and composure mean much more to me than raw numbers. Do I wish the car had a bit more power? Yeah, maybe. I mean, you never say no to that, do you? But increased performance comes at a cost. Added weight. More complexity. Everybody talks about FI, but I've owned several turbo cars and I just don't like the power delivery and prefer normally aspirated powertrains. Most small displacement turbo cars offer plenty of midrange grunt but still suffer from noticeable lag, and they're often gutless above 5500 RPM. And I like winding the car out and having the power build. So I really enjoy driving the FR-S and I really could care less if X car is X.X seconds faster.

The twins aren't 'fast' by today's standards. But they certainly aren't slow.

[TrackRider54]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Well, it really is true, expectations change over time. When I first started to drive, in 1986 (), a car with the performance of the FR-S/BRZ in stock form, was considered somewhat exotic.

I got my license in 1988, so I know where you're coming from. I can recall slobbering over 5.0 Mustangs and marveling over how fast they were with their 225hp V8's. I remember the mad acceleration of the of the Eagle Talon TSi AWD and it's 195hp 2.0L turbo motor. I spun a Dodge Conquest TSi and ended up pitching it off a 15ft embankment. Oh, and it had ~160hp from a turbo 2.4L. My 1985 RX-7 was unbelievable fun with it's 100hp rotary engine.

One of the reasons I still enjoy go-karts is that you can mash the pedal to the floor and use ever bit of power that lawnmower engine has while trying to keep your speed up using the proper line around the track.

When I test drove the FR-S, I loved how it wailed to redline in first, second, then I shifted to third and when I backed off of it I was doing....70mph. LOL! Awesome!! Felt like I was doing 100mph.

[dirtymax]

meh, I have a v twin bike with almost as much hp and a work truck with 600. This car is kind of slow but the handling is unreal for the price.

[Chad86]

Originally Posted by dirtymax

meh, I have a v twin bike with almost as much hp and a work truck with 600. This car is kind of slow but the handling is unreal for the price.

You can always add more hp later...

[Chad86]

Originally Posted by TrackRider54

I got my license in 1988, so I know where you're coming from. I can recall slobbering over 5.0 Mustangs and marveling over how fast they were with their 225hp V8's. I remember the mad acceleration of the of the Eagle Talon TSi AWD and it's 195hp 2.0L turbo motor. I spun a Dodge Conquest TSi and ended up pitching it off a 15ft embankment. Oh, and it had ~160hp from a turbo 2.4L. My 1985 RX-7 was unbelievable fun with it's 100hp rotary engine.

One of the reasons I still enjoy go-karts is that you can mash the pedal to the floor and use ever bit of power that lawnmower engine has while trying to keep your speed up using the proper line around the track.

When I test drove the FR-S, I loved how it wailed to redline in first, second, then I shifted to third and when I backed off of it I was doing....70mph. LOL! Awesome!! Felt like I was doing 100mph.

Epic!

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

A typical life cycle of a Japanese sports car..

RSX

[Sonolin]

These cars are pretty much *perfect* - except for their power figures.

JRSC here I come Just want to pay off the car first... Until then I'm loving my N/A 86

[Gilwith1l]

My brz is easily the slowest car I have owned in over the past 28 years.. But I still love it

[regal]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Look for the innovate supercharger, openflash tune, and headers/overpipe/exhaust you like best. If you buy the OFT, you get a discount on Vishnu's header. You'll see people refer to it as OFT/OFH.

There is a catch with your plan. You have to kidnap the guy from Delicious and get him to spend a few weeks on the dyno tuning your car.

Originally Posted by Vides990

LOL you can't be this dumb.

Have you ever worked with a team who designed a new engine? It would be nothing to put a form of the FA20T in the Subaru FRS. And as more models switch to it cheaper as well.imho.


Toyota is on record that they don't want a turbo on this car. I could list speculative reasons why:


1. Warranty
2. Damaged reputation (oops already got hit by that one)
3. Tada's ego (no turbo but lets put a nice big hole in the torque curve)
4. The car will be dropped by Toyota as soon as the BMW stuff is released
4. Increased insurance rates for target market segment




Notice msrp isn't up there.


To me this car is fast enough, if the engine was smooth like most cars with a Toyota/Scion nameplate I would stop complaining (its not trolling, Mike.)

Originally Posted by Mikem53

The stock tires are descent..they aren't the stickiest out there.. But they are capable of tires. They are michelin tires used on the more "sporty" Prius..
They aren't Prius tires..

You are unbelievable sometimes. Nearly every professional automotive journalist who reviewed this car disagreed. These tire were chosen for fuel economy and teenage fun factor (its in old guys too.)


You obviously haven't driven these tires in the rain. And the car should come with a warning sticker (do not drive below 32F outside).)


These tires have the worst qualities of summer tires and all seasons combined.


Only thing I can imagine is you live somewhere with very flat straight roads.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

Have you ever worked with a team who designed a new engine? It would be nothing to put a form of the FA20T in the Subaru FRS. And as more models switch to it cheaper as well.imho.

It's obvious you haven't.. Unless you count sweeping floors

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by regal

Only thing I can imagine is you live somewhere with very flat straight roads.

Flat straight roads with low speed limits. My biggest excitement is an on ramp. Leaving on Saturday!

Originally Posted by regal

Toyota is on record that they don't want a turbo on this car. I could list speculative reasons why:

2. Damaged reputation (oops already got hit by that one)

Damaged reputation? Did they burn themselves on a previous turbo sports car? I thought the celica gt4, mr2 (W20, not W30) and supra were great successes. Did I miss one?

Originally Posted by regal

There is a catch with your plan. You have to kidnap the guy from Delicious and get him to spend a few weeks on the dyno tuning your car.

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

You are unbelievable sometimes. Nearly every professional automotive journalist who reviewed this car disagreed. These tire were chosen for fuel economy and teenage fun factor (its in old guys too.)


You obviously haven't driven these tires in the rain. And the car should come with a warning sticker (do not drive below 32F outside).)


These tires have the worst qualities of summer tires and all seasons combined.


Only thing I can imagine is you live somewhere with very flat straight roads.

You are a simpleton.. You can't think for yourself and have to rely on everyone else's opinion without understanding what you are repeating.
Every professional reviewer is going to flog this car on a course or max it out somewhere where they can shoot for the limits. That's obviously not what these tires are designed for. But they build their short test drive review based on that. I never claimed they were for max traction or for track use. Any dolt would know that, excluding yourself. These tires have descent grip and I have pushed my car many times around clover leafs and on some back roads to know that they hang pretty good in turns but you can easily overcome traction in the rear by off setting the chassis.. With predictable results.. But the front tires will stay planted which tells me the cars offset weight distribution and chassis setup allows for a playful rear. As designed..
Maybe if a reviewer had the car for more than a session or two, they would realize the same.. But not you..
I've been at the track with my car. Stock evrything..the tires, brake pads, BF don't work too well there as expected, and as experienced by your heroes, The journalists .. Thus the lousy reviews.. Yet most sites like tirerack, discount tire, etc.. Have their customer reviews and reviewers give these tires a 4.5 out of 5.0 and higher on average..
But why ruin your delusional know-it-all knowledge with real facts and experiences.. Now back to your floors..

[5th 86]

I think the stock tires already have too much grip. I bought my car for fun, not to win races i love my car in winter. i can do all the stupid things that put a smile on my face at low speeds and when its easy on the drive train. On stock tires you gotta be going pretty fast and agressive sharp inputs or doing a flick to break traction in a turn.