Subaru... what's so good about them?

[DoctorNick]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Actually, Toyota bent Subaru over and made them their little bitch. Used their own factory to build cars for Toyota and contracted that for every brz there is 4 gt86/FRS made. At least that's how I see it.

Anyways... I was just curious about the Subaru front. Seems like a lot of people are butt hurt.

Yes. Because Toyota admitted their engineers have lost their sporting touch. Also they can't seem to make a sports car that meets the safety standards that Subaru requires. So they leaned heavily on Subaru for their engineering and manufacturing abilities. Helps when you own a large %...

Also, Subaru sold 1500 more BRZs then expected, but Scion sold 2k less than expected in the US. Wonder why that was... its not like the BRZ was cheaper

isn't that funny?

Subaru also produces as many cars(across all models) a year as Toyota sells corollas! To put engineering budgets into prospective.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Aggressive? Sorry, I'm just blunt like that. No sugar coating with me sweetheart.

In retrospect, I should've went with the BRZ. The head lights and HID's are worth the extra $1000 in hindsight.

But still, the question remains... Subaru? FIA? F1? Guess no... Sad because they obviously have the engine layout for something mean.

Again, in FIA, Suabru won countless title in WRC.

Can you name 3.. even 1 company that won all FIA races? I bet you, you can't

[rice_classic]

Subaru admitted that if it weren't for Toyota, they would not exist today.

Subaru is a niche brand. Seriously, if it weren't for Turbo+AWD they wouldn't exist today because the majority of their cars have looks only a mother could love and interiors that often times aren't as nice as the price tag would suggest (especially on the STI's). The Outback and Forrester can only go so far and if those models were not AWD, I bet Subaru would be a thing of the past. The AWD and Turbo niche has proven to be big enough to survive but the coming MPG/CAFE/MOT requirements means they may have to ditch AWD to hit their fleet averages. Of course, this is all opinion so don't take it too personally eh.

I think the BRZ is the only Subaru I've enjoyed looking at. I find it unfortunate that I think the new Camry is a more exciting design than the new WRX.

[rice_classic]

Stop thinking about F1 everyone. F1 is stupid for OEM's. The "F" in F1 really stands for Ferrari, let's face it.

Ford dropped out
Honda Dropped out (but the engines are coming back)
Toyota Dropped out
Nissan isn't there
Chevy/GM isn't there
Volvo isn't there.

F1 is a terrible example because it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to play in that sandbox and up until very recently there has been no homologation that even remotely translates to passenger cars on showroom floors. It stopped being a "development test bed" many years ago. Why do you think Nissan, Toyota, Audi are in LeMans? Because LeMans has a superior environment for new technologies... Diesels, Turbos, bi-turbos, hybrids, awd-hybrids, delta wings.. etc etc.

THERE'S AWD CARS IN LEMANS!! Seriously! When it comes to developing and testing new technologies for future passenger cars, if I were the head of an OEM I would have a team in LeMans way before F1.

[mav1178]

Thanks for the entertaining thread.

Internet vs Hmong337

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Subaru admitted that if it weren't for Toyota, they would not exist today.

Subaru is a niche brand. Seriously, if it weren't for Turbo+AWD they wouldn't exist today because the majority of their cars have looks only a mother could love and interiors that often times aren't as nice as the price tag would suggest (especially on the STI's). The Outback and Forrester can only go so far and if those models were not AWD, I bet Subaru would be a thing of the past. The AWD and Turbo niche has proven to be big enough to survive but the coming MPG/CAFE/MOT requirements means they may have to ditch AWD to hit their fleet averages. Of course, this is all opinion so don't take it too personally eh.

I think the BRZ is the only Subaru I've enjoyed looking at. I find it unfortunate that I think the new Camry is a more exciting design than the new WRX.

No, turbo isn't saving them. Reason why they're live is due to bang for a buck AWD. NA Impreza out sell WRX & STI.

AWD is one of the only reason why, they're still alive... til BRZ came along. iirc I read somewhere that, their sales were up since '11

[CoupedUpSubie]

@hmong337 did you know FIA is the governing body for The World Rally Championship(WRC).

We are responding aggressive because your question was one that sounds like it would come from the kid in a civic who street races every chance with just a fart can on his car and knows nothing about different manufacturers. Go on a General Motors forum and ask why the LSX series is so great, even though it has never been used in F1. The responses will probably be even harsher.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by CoupedUpSubie

@hmong337 did you know FIA is the governing body for The World Rally Championship(WRC).

We are responding aggressive because your question was one that sounds like it would come from the kid in a civic who street races every chance with just a fart can on his car and knows nothing about different manufacturers. Go on a General Motors forum and ask why the LSX series is so great, even though it has never been used in F1. The responses will probably be even harsher.

Wait, LSX is great? The only reason ppl use that motor was cuz they can find it anywhere for dirt cheap

/sarcasm

Sorry, I had to do it

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

No, turbo isn't saving them. Reason why they're live is due to band for a buck AWD. NA Impreza out sell WRX & STI.

AWD is one of the only reason why, they're still alive... til BRZ came along. iirc I read somewhere that, their sales were up since '11

I can dig it.

I wonder to what degree the turbo performance cars brought enough youth/enthusiasts into the showrooms who then aged, and bought a second subaru for the wife or the kid? There's been some talk about why it's important to have sports car or an affordable sporty car to create "brand enthusiasm" so that those people promote the brand via enthusiasm and return to the dealership for 2nd and 3rd car purchases.

I don't know how to find that data and I wouldn't even know how to go about measuring any outcomes of that theory anyway.

[mav1178]

Know why a flat-ANYTHING is a bad design for racing? Because it's a really REALLY shitty engine to create a platform around, for packaging reasons.

Subaru runs a flat 4 in their WRC efforts mostly because that's their corporate niche, similar to what Mazda has with a rotary. But beyond that, in top-level racing it's really about the shittiest engine design to race with.

-alex

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by CoupedUpSubie

@hmong337 did you know FIA is the governing body for The World Rally Championship(WRC).

We are responding aggressive because your question was one that sounds like it would come from the kid in a civic who street races every chance with just a fart can on his car and knows nothing about different manufacturers. Go on a General Motors forum and ask why the LSX series is so great, even though it has never been used in F1. The responses will probably be even harsher.

Subaru why you no make one of these?




...now all fan boys are all fired up lol.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Know why a flat-ANYTHING is a bad design for racing? Because it's a really REALLY shitty engine to create a platform around, for packaging reasons.

Subaru runs a flat 4 in their WRC efforts mostly because that's their corporate niche, similar to what Mazda has with a rotary. But beyond that, in top-level racing it's really about the shittiest engine design to race with.

-alex

But low COG?!?!? And racecar???

[DoctorNick]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Subaru admitted that if it weren't for Toyota, they would not exist today.

Subaru exists because FHI needed to keep the factories running after WW2. The % Toyota owns is certainly a large chunk but not really the reason Subaru is still pumping blood. Subaru has become a slightly profitable nitche for FHI.

[DoctorNick]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Know why a flat-ANYTHING is a bad design for racing? Because it's a really REALLY shitty engine to create a platform around, for packaging reasons.

Subaru runs a flat 4 in their WRC efforts mostly because that's their corporate niche, similar to what Mazda has with a rotary. But beyond that, in top-level racing it's really about the shittiest engine design to race with.

-alex

Porsche?