Subaru... what's so good about them?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by chrisl

BMW and Mercedes are copying EyeSight? I thought BMW/Merc already had similar tech using radar instead...

Benz did, but they're redesigning it

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Not trolling here... I'm from the Toyota camp and been a Toyota guy my entire life.

Seriously though, other than WRC what's so good about Subaru? To me, F1 and FIA GT1 are the pinnicle of racing and manufacturers entering are definitely in the elite. What has Subaru proved outside of WRC? All I can dig up is their failed attempt in F1 decades back. Meanwhile, Toyota has had their hands in everything from WRC, F1, and FIA GT1. Albeit, not taking any first place trophies and Toyota is deemed to be the most losing Auto company in racing. But at least they're out there developing and racing at the top tier.

Subaru..? I can't seem to find any history outside of WRC. And if they're not competing in top class, what makes them so good at a racing stand point? Sure they have had a few gt300 SuperGT cars, but no F1? No FIA?

I'm still on the fence why Subaru should be taken seriously. Whereas Toyota has developed screaming v10's put into F1 cars and hybrid power trains fitted to their TS030 to battle with Audi's at the 24h of Me Mans, where is Subaru?

So first of all, as a few people pointed out, a race car at that level (F1, Le Mans) often has little to no relevance to road cars. Nearly every single part is made by a European manufacturer who specializes in race car parts. There are very few things that can affordably/efficiently/effectively be passed down from that to the production road cars.

Now on that front, WRC cars used to be very relevant to road cars, particularly in the 90's. They shared the same engine and chassis and suspension design as the production cars. In fact, for a while, they'd have to make a homologation special production vehicle where they couldn't even change the external body parts! That's why we first got cars like the Lancer Evolution and Subaru STI with the big adjustable rear wings on them. They also had to be made to handle all sorts of real roads in difficult, unpredictable weather or surface conditions. And they had to be easy to repair in a timely manner in between stages which led to quicker/easier maintenance in the production cars for shop mechanics.

So yeah, from what I've seen, WRC was the most relevant form of racing for progressing production cars. However, with the rules they implemented in the 00's and especially the past few years, it is no longer a relevant sport, which is why Subaru dropped out. However, the lower classes like P-WRC are still somewhat relevant.

OK, so what is Subaru good at? What do they bring to the table? They (aside from Porsche) are the only manufacturers of boxer engines. Boxer engines have better natural balance to eliminate the need for balance shafts and heavy counter weights. They are also the lowest center of gravity design (particularly with wet-sump lubrication).

The other thing they are very good at now (likely because of their experience in WRC), is their steel chassis. These chassis are one of the safest and strongest in the world, while still being light weight. Just look at the recent small overlap tests. Subaru is handling them fine while other big manufacturers are failing (yes, even Toyota's new cars).

And this is not relevant to this car but lastly, Subaru's AWD system is mechanically the best due to equal length drive shafts front and rear to maximize grip. With their system, they can have front or rear biased torque distribution whereas most can only do up to 50% on one axle.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not necessarily a Subaru fan boy. Mitsubishi and Toyota are/were my favorite manufacturers for a long time. But Subaru, especially these days, is a very serious contender in the market. Toyota was smart to buy part of them and to work with them on this sports car!

[daiheadjai]

Small correction: Toyota did get banned from WRC for cheating for one season in the mid 90s.
BUT, they were very successful in the WRC before then (Carlos Sainz in the various GT4s come to mind, as well as the other bugeye, the 1998 Corolla hatchback WRC).

If I'm not mistaken, ALS (anti-lag system, the thing that makes rally car exhausts backfire on purpose) was a Toyota creation, not to mention their very creative turbo bypass that they used to cheat.

http://www.carthrottle.com/retrospec...elica-gt-four/
http://crasstalk.com/2011/03/cheatin...st-cheat-ever/
Interesting reads.

FWIW, I think that WRC has more relevance to us everyday drivers, and it demands more from both man and machine.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Small correction: Toyota did get banned from WRC for cheating for one season in the mid 90s.
BUT, they were very successful in the WRC before then (Carlos Sainz in the various GT4s come to mind, as well as the other bugeye, the 1998 Corolla hatchback WRC).

If I'm not mistaken, ALS (anti-lag system, the thing that makes rally car exhausts backfire on purpose) was a Toyota creation, not to mention their very creative turbo bypass that they used to cheat.

http://www.carthrottle.com/retrospec...elica-gt-four/
http://crasstalk.com/2011/03/cheatin...st-cheat-ever/
Interesting reads.

FWIW, I think that WRC has more relevance to us everyday drivers, and it demands more from both man and machine.

One correction. ALS was first started in 80's F1.

[ichitaka05]

Also I'll leave this meme here. I saw it this morning & couldn't stop laughing



Sent from my mighty mind

[Vincenttam]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

Did you mean Toyota ?

Nope i mean subaru. Trust me i was suprised when it wasn't toyota or honda.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

Beside that, driving a Subaru is unique to others. I don't know what to say, but simply put, every movements the car make on the road, you feel it. It is like a live partner...not a mechanical car

I understand exactly what you mean - I actually don't like them that much on pavement (even the WRX/STi, though I'll be really curious to drive the '15 wrx), but get any Subaru on dirt or snow, even a lowly Outback/Forester/Impreza base model, and the handling is really stable, intuitive, and perfectly predictable. They really feel like they were influenced by Subaru's history in rally.

[trd_kid]

I feel like I'm the only one here that thinks both subaru and toyota are quality brands that have race history to be proud of , and glad they came together for the ft86 and hope they keep the car around for another generation. :/