Manual vs. Auto?

[Frost]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Can I ask how the manual Connects you more with the engine? You have an extra pedal, but the auto shifts faster. Not saying you're wrong, just wondering.

Also, fun is subjective. Bother cars are great when driving backroads, but I would hate my car as a DD because the clutch sucks. So to me the auto is more fun overall because I can enjoy it 100% of the time.

With an auto - anyone who has a licence can drive it. There is no need to understand the why, just point and shoot.

With a manual - you actually have to have SOME idea of what and how the car works and thus are more connected because you know more about it and thus deeper into the car. Connection doesn't necessarily mean physical. It's like knowing where you food comes from gives you a better connection to it all.

If auto works for you, then by all means, to each their own.

As much as I initially disliked the Honda clutches on the TSX and Accord, I got used to them after the 3rd traffic light or so.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Frost

With an auto - anyone who has a licence can drive it. There is no need to understand the why, just point and shoot.

With a manual - you actually have to have SOME idea of what and how the car works and thus are more connected because you know more about it and thus deeper into the car. Connection doesn't necessarily mean physical. It's like knowing where you food comes from gives you a better connection to it all.

If auto works for you, then by all means, to each their own.

As much as I initially disliked the Honda clutches on the TSX and Accord, I got used to them after the 3rd traffic light or so.

I have never owned an AT before until now, so I i dont think I forgot everything just because I dont own a mt all of a sudden. An enthusiast will learn about his car either way. Hell, i actually knew basically nothing about ATs beyond they have a torque converter until now. I am learning about it as I need to know what it can withstand as I increade power and abuse. So does that mean I am more connected than an MT drover who doesnt understand ATs since I know both?

Im not trying to sound like a condescending ass, I just like to ask questions to further discussion.

[boredom.is.me]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Can I ask how the manual Connects you more with the engine? You have an extra pedal, but the auto shifts faster. Not saying you're wrong, just wondering.

Also, fun is subjective. Both cars are great when driving backroads, but I would hate my car as a DD because the clutch sucks. Granted the car I drove didnt have the adjustment, but it still offers zero feedback which I hated. So to me the auto is more fun overall because I can enjoy it 100% of the time.

What are you talking about when you say "zero feedback"?

As far as connectivity, in an auto, you have computer doing everything for you. In a manual, you are the one handling how the power gets to the wheels. Trying to throw it out by saying there is an extra pedal would only hurt your argument (not saying that there is an argument).

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

What are you talking about when you say "zero feedback"?

As far as connectivity, in an auto, you have computer doing everything for you. In a manual, you are the one handling how the power gets to the wheels. Trying to throw it out by saying there is an extra pedal would only hurt your argument (not saying that there is an argument).

I guess by zero feedback I am reffering to how light everything is. I couldnt feel where it was catching. That combined with lack of pedal adjustment made it terrible imo. Im sure it could be resolved with the adjustment and maybe even a stiffer clutch, but the fact that my other cars (88 325i, 02 wrx wagon, ae86, 05 sti) I got in and immediatly liked the way it felt turned me off of this one. Im sure I could have got used to it, but I would be settling and not "happy" with it.

And I still fail to see how when I control the shifts in an AT how that is less connected than a MT. It is less mechanical and more tech, but is that really bad or more disconnected? If it responds when I want it to then I dont think it hurts.

[leicaboss]

Not gonna lie, I missed driving stick so much I sold my C350 coupe, smooth as butter, to hop into my MT FR-S...

I realize there are plenty of things that make driving AT convenient, having owned a couple myself - but I am far more entertained by the DIY mentality behind driving my car. Plus - living in SF, where cars aren't exactly as common as they were in LA, driving stick means people can't borrow it I don't think there's anything wrong with automatics (dual clutches included) - many of them shift way smoother and faster than I can, yet I can't imagine driving a sporty car without rowing through the gears myself...

I don't really mind the hills at all, made me nail the clutch engagement right away on this car.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by Wolfking

Manual!
1.) "Connects" the driver to the car...
2.) Simply more fun...
3.) It's less expensive than an auto.

4.) impresses the womenz...

[Akari]

You have a lot less control from an automatic even if you're telling it when to change gears. There is no concept of slipping the clutch and modulating the throttle to get the precise control you want, dumping the clutch(instant) turns into pressing the gas all the way down and waiting for your transmission to decide when to grab, power shifting isn't possible, etc etc. I'm not saying that they're necessarily bad, but they do remove a lot of your control.

I'm very used to riding ATVs and motorcycles where precise clutch control is the only reason you can modulate and maintain a wheelie or break traction when you want to.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Akari

You have a lot less control from an automatic even if you're telling it when to change gears. There is no concept of slipping the clutch and modulating the throttle to get the precise control you want, dumping the clutch(instant) turns into pressing the gas all the way down and waiting for your transmission to decide when to grab, power shifting isn't possible, etc etc. I'm not saying that they're necessarily bad, but they do remove a lot of your control.

I'm very used to riding ATVs and motorcycles where precise clutch control is the only reason you can modulate and maintain a wheelie or break traction when you want to.

Goood points. I dobt use my car in a fashion where I would need to those things so I never thought of it. I know I cant launch at autox, but Im out there for fun and not really worried about it. The throttle input is an interesting thought, but doesnt dbw make it the same for the MT since there is a latency in both? I know the torque convertor is what your really talking about but what kind of translation does it have real world? I dont know a lot about AT so Id love to know more.

[Akari]

You can still do similar to launch, just hold your foot on the brake pedal and rev it some then release. Try to break traction while going 30mph though, in an auto it's really impossible. In a manual I can push the clutch in, rev to 6k RPM and let the clutch out. Your torque converter will never allow an action like this to happen.

Automatics are great for 95% of the population but for those who enjoy the added control nothing beats a manual.

[Blood]

I don't think the people who don't own or haven't driven the auto realize that the auto can be put in a manual mode that gives the driver complete control over shifting, using either the paddles behind the wheel or the floor shifter. When it's in manual mode, it isn't like the auto in a Prius or similarly boring car where the driver puts their foot down and waits for it to pick the right gear.

The driver is in full control of the gear the car is in, and when it up shifts and down shifts (exception if the car would stall). The current gear is displayed on the bottom screen of the tach just like in the MT version of the car. You can bounce off the limiter all day and the car won't upshift, but it will downshift on its own if the rpms get too low to prevent the car from stalling.

The only differences between the AT and MT are:
- No clutch pedal (so no clutch dumping for launching and etc)
- AT has taller gearing for fuel economy
- MT gives the choice of skipping gears (5th to 3rd for example), whereas the AT would have to downshift sequentially (5 -> 4 -> 3)

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Akari

You can still do similar to launch, just hold your foot on the brake pedal and rev it some then release. Try to break traction while going 30mph though, in an auto it's really impossible. In a manual I can push the clutch in, rev to 6k RPM and let the clutch out. Your torque converter will never allow an action like this to happen.

Automatics are great for 95% of the population but for those who enjoy the added control nothing beats a manual.

Ok. I was trying to think of a scenerio where I would use that but I dont drift so a clutch dump isnt something I need. If I want to mess around my ebrake wont hate me as little as I do it. Lol

And the launch isnt as easy since toyota disables the gas peddle when you depress the brake ever since the runaway car thing a while back. Still possible but you have to hold it just right.

[Yugimons]

In another thread about this, someone mentioned that the auto can skip gear shifts as well. Just double tap the paddle, and it will go for example from 5th to 3rd without ever touching 4th. Haven't tried this out for myself on a test drive yet though.

[Blood]

Originally Posted by Yugimons

In another thread about this, someone mentioned that the auto can skip gear shifts as well. Just double tap the paddle, and it will go for example from 5th to 3rd without ever touching 4th. Haven't tried this out for myself on a test drive yet though.

Oh? I'll have to try that sometime. I wonder if the same can be done with the floor shifter, since it's what I use a majority of the time to shift.

[Iand518]

Think about the following: When your really accelerating hard and there's a bump or dip in the road you can time your shifts to unload the suspension and driveline, making the bump or dip much smoother.
Tip on hills: Use the e-brake to hold the car on a hill. As you let the clutch out you can feel it start to pull thru the e-brake, then you just release the e-brake.
I'm 41 and have owned nearly a dozen stick shift cars. The clutch is great (very light) in the FR-S, but the low torque means you can and will stall the car if you try to leave with too few revs.
My best advise is be honest with yourself. I've met very few people who enjoy both Manual and Automatic transmission. It a car you want to enjoy, buy the trans you enjoy.


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