2015 Mazda Miata vs FR-S? To wait, or not to wait?

[Ganthrithor]

This is just my two cents, but for what it's worth I think the FRS will seem more difficult to drive at first due to the way the car is set up: the FRS has a really low CG, not very much body roll, and is setup to be pretty oversteer-inclined (from what I've read anyway-- I've got a BRZ which is more understeery from the factory and I changed the suspension within a few thousand miles anyway). The Miata probably feels easier to drive because it probably gives you more feedback at lower speeds than the FRS does.

IMHO if you're 17 and looking for a first non-truck, I'd get something used. Preferably, used and pretty simple. I'd say used Miata, used E46 3-series, or an old early-2000's Boxster would be good learning sportscars. You definitely want something that's not too expensive to buy or insure (these should all fit that bill, although working on the Porsche or BMW will be more expensive), and not too powerful. Driving a powerful car has the potential to teach you bad driving habits-- you want something that you'll have to work to get down the road quickly. Similarly, you'll want something as analog as possible. You'll want a car in which the computer systems can be switched off-- preferably entirely off, something that's not quite possible in the 86, at least without resorting to fuse-pulling and factory diagnostic modes-- or you'll want a car that doesn't have traction control at all. Cars with cable-throttles are beautiful things and will instill good driving habits in their operators, as well as causing you to grin in satisfaction where lesser vehicles might leave you frowning at a blinking traction control light (ask me how mad I get whenever I see my BRZ's trac light blinking when the systems are set to "full off"-- hint: I get pretty mad).

You don't need satnav, and even if you do, the 86 is not the car to pick (the head units are fucking awful). Just use Google maps on your mobile device of choice-- it's going to do a better job anyway and won't restrict your choice of vehicles. If you need to, buy a mount for your phone to keep it near your driving sight lines when you're using it to navigate.

You'll be much better off spending $25k on a used sportscar (or sporty RWD sedan) plus some driving schools + track time than spending the whole sum on a new car.

Lastly, I wouldn't put too much weight on cool-factor. Here's the thing: as a general rule, girls aren't going to care what you drive (with the possible exception of girls who will care if you drive something very expensive, but those aren't the kind of girls you want to be spending time with anyway). Some guys might care about what you drive, and some guys might think your Miata is lame as hell, but if you care about driving those aren't the people you're going to want to be spending time with anyway. At the end of the day, nobody's really going to care very much about what you drive except you. You're the one who's going to have to live with the car every day. Pick one that you like, and go have adventures with it. The end. Do you like the top-down, wind-in-the-hair feel of the Miata? Get a Miata! Do you like the ridiculously flat cornering ability and fast steering rack of the 86? Get an 86! Do you like the pure aural pleasure that results from a Porsche flat-six being hammered down a straight at full-tilt? (And the wind-in-the-hair feel of the Miata, and the excellent cornering ability of the 86...) Get a Boxster! Do you need rear seats (like, for actually putting non-amputee friends into on a semi-regular basis) but still want to have some RWD fun? Get a used BMW.

There is no 100% correct choice to make; everything is a compromise of one sort or another. Sit back, size up what you want or need out of a car, and then find something for under $20k that fits the bill and buy it. Once you've done that, take the rest of your cash and sign up for a Skip Barber (or equivalent) driving school and go spend a weekend learning just how radically awesome a skidpad is. Once you've done that, stick with your car for the next year or two until you've really learned to wring it out properly. Once you feel like you've mastered that car and can really use it to its full potential, figure out what you liked and disliked about it and go find another car that sounds like it will suit you even better. Rinse and repeat until you run out of money or non-autonomous cars are banned from the roads, whichever comes first.

[Chad11491]

You're recommending a 17 year old buy a Porsche boxster? I'm sure he'd love that insurance bill.

But I'd go with a used car too. The older the better. You dont necessarily lose performance that way.

For cheap performance cars that are easy(ish) to work on, I'd go with an old m3, late 90's camaro ss, fox mustang, 240sx, old Z's , etc.

It'll teach you how to work on cars (not that these are unreliable, they all are pretty reliable) , be cheap as chips on insurance, and not HORRIBLE on gas. Plus they're all under 10 grand, and many under 5 for very good examples of them, and they're still "cool" cars too.

If you had to pick between miata and FRS. FRS all the way. You wouldn't be comfortable in a miata on long trips. I'm 6'4" as well, and can't stand them on trips over 20min. My knees are all in the dash and I feel like my head rubs on the top.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

You're recommending a 17 year old buy a Porsche boxster? I'm sure he'd love that insurance bill.

I chuckled myself. A 17yr old with $25K to burn on a car should get something used for $15K or less and bank the $10K on insurance, gas, maintenance, incidentals, and his future. You can certainly find an older Boxster in that range, but you pay P tax on the parts and maintenance, not to mention the reliability of those first gen (<- I think) water cooler sixes is questionable at best. An NA/NB Miata or S2K can be found well within that price range and are likely to last longer overall with less money dumped into them while the driving dynamics are certainly as good.

[krayzie]

Track Day Bro!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1kuo6xkbE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1kuo6xkbE[/ame]

[DoomsdayJesus]

You will pay out the ass for E46 maintenance/gas or miata insurance. Probably FR-S insurance too.

In any case, I would get a cheap stick car to learn on so if you buy something new you don't annihilate the clutch/tranny and also because you're 17. When I had to learn how to drive stick while my SRT-4 was on order I rented a VW golf with a manual tranny for 5 days and beat the ever-loving shit out of it through Frankfurt. Unfortunately you may have to borrow a car since they don't rent manual transmissions in the US that I know of. I wrecked my first car within 6 hours of getting it at that age because I was young and freaking stupid like all 17 year olds are. Thankfully it happened under 35 MPH and wasn't entirely my fault, but it was still a lesson well learned.

Learn how to properly drive first, sell it, and then buy something awesome. I would never in good conscience recommend anyone buy a fast-ish car as a teenager because the odds of it ending up in a ditch are fantastic.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

You will pay out the ass for E46 maintenance/gas or miata insurance. Probably FR-S insurance too.

In any case, I would get a cheap stick car to learn on so if you buy something new you don't annihilate the clutch/tranny and also because you're 17. When I had to learn how to drive stick while my SRT-4 was on order I rented a VW golf with a manual tranny for 5 days and beat the ever-loving shit out of it through Frankfurt. Unfortunately you may have to borrow a car since they don't rent manual transmissions in the US that I know of. I wrecked my first car within 6 hours of getting it at that age because I was young and freaking stupid like all 17 year olds are. Thankfully it happened under 35 MPH and wasn't entirely my fault, but it was still a lesson well learned.

Learn how to properly drive first, sell it, and then buy something awesome. I would never in good conscience recommend anyone buy a fast-ish car as a teenager because the odds of it ending up in a ditch are fantastic.

paying a ton for miata insurance is new to me. why do you say that? i also wouldnt bother renting a car to learn stick. its not that hard.

[mid_life_crisis]

Regarding the clutch on the twins, the adjustment you've seen mentioned a couple of times does not change the engagement action, it simply repositions the pedal, kind of like the fancy cars that can move the entire pedal group, except it is just the clutch and it isn't something you can change on the fly.
The thing to consider about that abrupt grab at the top is that it also means you have a quick letting go when you press on it. This means that once you get the hang of it, working the clutch is little more than a press of the toe. In other words, it's fast shifting at its finest. The designers knew what they were doing. As has been said, it's a driver's car. Pretty much everything about it will frustrate a wannabe who just thinks he can drive but doesn't really know how. On the other hand, if you know what you're doing, it is a freaking joy. There's a reason some of the experts call it one of if not the best driver's car available right now. You'd have to go through a learning curve, but that will be true no matter what you buy. There are faster cars, but very few that are as much fun.

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by fatoni

paying a ton for miata insurance is new to me. why do you say that? i also wouldnt bother renting a car to learn stick. its not that hard.

2 door, 2 seat, convertible sport roadster, 17 year old driver. That's like the insurance company hitting the lottery. I'd highly recommend the OP gets insurance quotes for any car he plans on buying well before walking into a dealer to purchase.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

2 door, 2 seat, convertible sport roadster, 17 year old driver. That's like the insurance company hitting the lottery. I'd highly recommend the OP gets insurance quotes for any car he plans on buying well before walking into a dealer to purchase.

i dont think thats how insurance works.

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont think thats how insurance works.

How do you figure? That's exactly how it works.

For a basic rundown that specifically mentions the Miata:
http://money.howstuffworks.com/perso...rance-rate.htm
Pay attention to the source page.

Insurance factors car history, driver risk, potential medical liability, amongst many, many, many other things. If you drive a car that has a history of drivers crashing them and suffering injuries (convertibles), or fast cars likely to be driven recklessly by a 17 year old you're going to get slammed.

Insurance companies vary in how they apply rates, but the factors I listed are nearly universal. It's part of the reason we have 2 useless rear seats and why some manufacturers chronically understate horsepower. They know certain things trigger high rates and seriously impact what drivers are willing to buy.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

How do you figure? That's exactly how it works.

For a basic rundown that specifically mentions the Miata:
http://money.howstuffworks.com/perso...rance-rate.htm
Pay attention to the source page.

Insurance factors car history, driver risk, potential medical liability, amongst many, many, many other things. If you drive a car that has a history of drivers crashing them and suffering injuries (convertibles), or fast cars likely to be driven recklessly by a 17 year old you're going to get slammed.

Insurance companies vary in how they apply rates, but the factors I listed are nearly universal. It's part of the reason we have 2 useless rear seats and why some manufacturers chronically understate horsepower. They know certain things trigger high rates and seriously impact what drivers are willing to buy.

well lets think about it. if the op is 17 when he is driving the miata, he is going to be 17 when he is driving anything else. i dont know how thats the miatas fault. insurance companies are not stupid. vestigal backseats arent going to confuse them into thinking that it is somehow less expensive to insure. there is data that gets looked at. data regarding the amount of money it costs to insure things. the repairs for a miata arent expensive and the demographic that buys them keeps the overall number of accidents and things pretty low. the type of person to go about acting like a fool is likely the same person who makes fun of miata drivers based on sexual preference and such.

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by fatoni

well lets think about it. if the op is 17 when he is driving the miata, he is going to be 17 when he is driving anything else. i dont know how thats the miatas fault. insurance companies are not stupid. vestigal backseats arent going to confuse them into thinking that it is somehow less expensive to insure. there is data that gets looked at. data regarding the amount of money it costs to insure things. the repairs for a miata arent expensive and the demographic that buys them keeps the overall number of accidents and things pretty low. the type of person to go about acting like a fool is likely the same person who makes fun of miata drivers based on sexual preference and such.

There's no thinking. There's how insurance companies work. And it's not based on Miata driver's sexual preference, exclusively what it costs to repair a car, or whatever straw man you're thinking of throwing in there. It varies widely based on state law as well, but you're going to pay a hell of a lot more based on the criteria I listed above, and when you're young you pay a lot more in "risky" cars. Flipping a Miata may only incur so much in damages to the car but the medical liability that most states require will cost you a boatload because they're not as safe as other cars.

These aren't opinions, they're facts. Ask any claims adjuster.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

There's no thinking. There's how insurance companies work. And it's not based on Miata driver's sexual preference, exclusively what it costs to repair a car, or whatever straw man you're thinking of throwing in there. It varies widely based on state law as well, but you're going to pay a hell of a lot more based on the criteria I listed above, and when you're young you pay a lot more in "risky" cars. Flipping a Miata may only incur so much in damages to the car but the medical liability that most states require will cost you a boatload because they're not as safe as other cars.

These aren't opinions, they're facts. Ask any claims adjuster.

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/insu...-insure-1.aspx

i just dont see what youre getting at. im not saying i think the miata is just as safe as other cars but you keep talking like its just common knowledge and i would appreciate it if you would just provide one piece of evidence that the miata is expensive to insure

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by fatoni

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/insu...-insure-1.aspx

i just dont see what youre getting at. im not saying i think the miata is just as safe as other cars but you keep talking like its just common knowledge and i would appreciate it if you would just provide one piece of evidence that the miata is expensive to insure

It's actually one of the least expensive to insure among sports cars:

http://voices.yahoo.com/10-least-exp...e-5302851.html