2015 Mazda Miata vs FR-S? To wait, or not to wait?

[reni]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Not really. The Miata is very stiff and with the hardtop on it's easy to forget it's a 'vert.

...until you roll it.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by reni

...until you roll it.

new miatas arent like 89 miatas. contemporary cars have crash standards including rolls. early miatas a pillars dont provide any sort of structural integrity and they dont have roll hoops but current cars do.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by fatoni

new miatas arent like 89 miatas. contemporary cars have crash standards including rolls. early miatas a pillars dont provide any sort of structural integrity and they dont have roll hoops but current cars do.

.

[reni]

Originally Posted by fatoni

new miatas arent like 89 miatas. contemporary cars have crash standards including rolls. early miatas a pillars dont provide any sort of structural integrity and they dont have roll hoops but current cars do.

Imagine a line from the top of the windshield frame to whatever point behind that is capable of supporting the car's weight. This is where the ground will be in a rollover. Even if you have an NC and are extremely optimistic about the structural integrity of the style hoops, you'll notice that your head still protrudes past this line by quite a bit. While it's true that you probably won't be completely crushed during a rollover, the chance of serious head and spinal injury is still rather high.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by reni

Imagine a line from the top of the windshield frame to whatever point behind that is capable of supporting the car's weight. This is where the ground will be in a rollover. Even if you have an NC and are extremely optimistic about the structural integrity of the style hoops, you'll notice that your head still protrudes past this line by quite a bit. While it's true that you probably won't be completely crushed during a rollover, the chance of serious head and spinal injury is still rather high.

I track a miata regularly. I get how it works. The NC doesn't have style hoops. A couple things to point out are 1. Cars don't really land upside down. Early miatas have a lower center of gravity than an frs. The bottom wants to stay the bottom. 2. This is why a three point seat belt is used from the factory in conjunction with other factory safety equipment. With a 4/5/6 pt. It would be terrible but if a car does land on its head, your head won't be held above the broom stick. Not ideal but hitting the ground is likely as bad as hitting anything strong enough to keep a car in tact. Impact is impact. Besides, the percentage of injuries in cars due to rolls is very small. It's why I don't advocate roll bars in street cars.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by reni

...until you roll it.

4 words: Hard Dog Roll Bar.


Also, if you roll a Miata, you're bad and you should feel bad.

[StratCat]

Originally Posted by Poodles

4 words: Hard Dog Roll Bar.

Also, if you roll a Miata, you're bad and you should feel bad.

As long as you don't get rear-ended on the street, w/o a helmet.

I spent a heck-of-a-lot of time ruminating over this back-and-forth, but finally gave-in & got a Boss Frog so I can track my NB. I'm still not thrilled with that piece of pipe sitting directly behind my head, but I deal with it - I'm cautious as he** during panic stops, though!

A roll-bar for a street-driven Miata is not a decision to be taken lightly ...

Originally Posted by strat61caster

from what I can tell on just about every Miata/rollbar combo installing one involves hacking away at the interior panels

This is true, but it's not a super-major hack and applies only to the area behind the seats, so cosmetically it's not too bad. But you will lose the windblocker and some of the functionality of the seat-belt retractors, which can be a big-deal for some.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by StratCat

As long as you don't get rear-ended on the street, w/o a helmet.

I spent a heck-of-a-lot of time ruminating over this back-and-forth, but finally gave-in & got a Boss Frog so I can track my NB. I'm still not thrilled with that piece of pipe sitting directly behind my head, but I deal with it - I'm cautious as he** during panic stops, though!

A roll-bar for a street-driven Miata is not a decision to be taken lightly...

They make a foam wrap for them if you're worried about that. It depends on how tall you are and your seating position on if it could hit your head in a wreck. NA and NB1 seats have a lower headrest than NB2 and on as well.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Poodles

They make a foam wrap for them if you're worried about that. It depends on how tall you are and your seating position on if it could hit your head in a wreck. NA and NB1 seats have a lower headrest than NB2 and on as well.

Roll bar wraps don't do anything except for the intended use in conjunction with a helmet. What you need to do is use an aluminium race seat to drop your height.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Roll bar wraps don't do anything except for the intended use in conjunction with a helmet. What you need to do is use an aluminium race seat to drop your height.

This has been proven otherwise...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Poodles

This has been proven otherwise...

well thats news to me. id like to see the evidence you have. id be surprised if you could find one study that didnt involve a helmet.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by fatoni

well thats news to me. id like to see the evidence you have. id be surprised if you could find one study that didnt involve a helmet.

SFI rated padding is tested on a headform without the helmet and the spec is a lower amount of G's than an SFI rated helmet. It's effectively putting helmet padding on the bar itself.


It's meant to be used with a helmet for racing as extra protection in a high speed wreck (more distance to decelerate = less G's)


Of course this is moot if the bar is behind your headrest...

[StratCat]

Originally Posted by Poodles

SFI rated padding is tested on a headform without the helmet and the spec is a lower amount of G's than an SFI rated helmet. It's effectively putting helmet padding on the bar itself.


It's meant to be used with a helmet for racing as extra protection in a high speed wreck (more distance to decelerate = less G's)

Yes, exactly. The foam is to be used with a helmet to work as a system to minimize risk. The foam on it's own will not do a credible job of protecting your head from the bar.

Of course this is moot if the bar is behind your headrest...

And that's the Miata problem, at least with NA & NB. The cockpit is just too tiny, and the height needed to clear the soft-top is just too low. Hard tops are even worse.

As mentioned, you can change or lower the seat, but you'll lose the seat rails and their adjustability in order to get it low enough (or just to get an aftermarket seat to fit!)

The rollbar solutions, if you want to be able to put your top up, are very difficult and problematic.

Now if you're not concerned about having a top, there are some better choices, but then you've turned your street car into a fair-weather track dog, and no longer have to worry about getting rear-ended on the street!

BTW - Couldn't find the "Thank you" button - maybe I need more posts?

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by StratCat

Yes, exactly. The foam is to be used with a helmet to work as a system to minimize risk. The foam on it's own will not do a credible job of protecting your head from the bar.

Yet that's not what their testing showed...

Originally Posted by StratCat

And that's the Miata problem, at least with NA & NB. The cockpit is just too tiny, and the height needed to clear the soft-top is just too low. Hard tops are even worse.

Agreed, the cockpit is tiny on the NA and NB.

Originally Posted by StratCat

As mentioned, you can change or lower the seat, but you'll lose the seat rails and their adjustability in order to get it low enough (or just to get an aftermarket seat to fit!)

Most people pull a ton of foam out of the seat to get it down lower so far as I know.

Originally Posted by StratCat

The rollbar solutions, if you want to be able to put your top up, are very difficult and problematic.

Hard Dog makes several...

Originally Posted by StratCat

Now if you're not concerned about having a top, there are some better choices, but then you've turned your street car into a fair-weather track dog, and no longer have to worry about getting rear-ended on the street!

Eh, a full cage complicates matters even worse (and the damn thing gets harder to get into from what I've seen). I have seen some bikini looking tops for caged cars, but I personally wouldn't go full cage. Hell, if that's the case, turn it into an Exocet...

Originally Posted by StratCat

BTW - Couldn't find the "Thank you" button - maybe I need more posts?

Likely the issue