Anyone else find 3rd gear redundant?

[Khorne]

Originally Posted by 6speed_Sam

It makes sense.. Not sure I'll go by what the article says, but I'll definitely have that on my mind every time I skip a gear.. lol

I don't skip gears often.

I did, a lot, mostly hammer it up to speed then change into 5th or 6th.
End result was a ruined syncro in 6th in my first 4 months with the 86.
It's been replaced but now i always go into that gear first.

When downshifting and skipping i will still go through all the gears until i reach the desired one then rev match, just so i don't wear the syncro of any gear badly.

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by Khorne

I did, a lot, mostly hammer it up to speed then change into 5th or 6th.
End result was a ruined syncro in 6th in my first 4 months with the 86.
It's been replaced but now i always go into that gear first.

When downshifting and skipping i will still go through all the gears until i reach the desired one then rev match, just so i don't wear the syncro of any gear badly.

I'm pretty sure it's okay to skip gears when downshifting so long as you are properly rev-matching, and if necessary, double-clutching. The problem with skipping gears on upshifting, in terms of synchro's, is that you aren't rev-matching (or double-clutching).

[slicktop]

I agree with OP. this car could have been a 5spd. I find 3rd or 4th gear useless.

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by slicktop

I agree with OP. this car could have been a 5spd. I find 3rd or 4th gear useless.

So because you don't accelerate beyond 58 mph, the car should have been a 5 speed? 2nd gear redlines at 58 mph... what do you do if you're merging into a 70-80 mph highway, redline in 2nd and then dump it in 6th and hope for the best?

For straight line street driving, I can understand the lack of value of having a 6 speed. 3rd gear redlines at 83 mph, and I'm unaware of any American roads that exceed a speed limit of 80 mph. But then again, what's the point of having a top speed of greater than say 90 mph then? Clearly, 143 is overkill, no?

...and you know, there are those who do like to track their cars. Having a 6 speed makes selecting the proper gear for a given turn much better. Keeping the car within its powerband as often as possible is important and relevant.

For those who complain about the lack of torque, 0-60 mph times, or 1/4 times... you guys do realize that a 5 speed would have taller/wider gears, and would make the car even slower, right? Of course, even with a 5 speed, the car could keep a similar gearing ratio, but at the expensive of top speed... and while top speed may not be relevant to everyone, I'd rather not take sacrifices because some people don't "need" the benefits of a 6 speed.

EDIT: I have an idea. Why not swap out the 2.0L boxer for a 1.6L boxer (non-turbo). We don't need the extra horsepower and torque for daily driving, and we'd get way better mpg's!!!

EDIT 2: Go buy Gran Turismo 6 and try driving multiple cars using both a 5 speed and 6 speed transmission for each car if you still need help understand the benefits of having a close-ratio 6 speed vs a wide-ratio 5 speed. The Evo 8 is a good example that I can recall, which comes with a 5 speed stock; Hint: it's difficult to be in the proper gear for most turns due to being either below the powerband or pegging the redline.

[slicktop]

Originally Posted by Hanni_0176

So because you don't accelerate beyond 58 mph, the car should have been a 5 speed? 2nd gear redlines at 58 mph... what do you do if you're merging into a 70-80 mph highway, redline in 2nd and then dump it in 6th and hope for the best?

For straight line street driving, I can understand the lack of value of having a 6 speed. 3rd gear redlines at 83 mph, and I'm unaware of any American roads that exceed a speed limit of 80 mph. But then again, what's the point of having a top speed of greater than say 90 mph then? Clearly, 143 is overkill, no?

...and you know, there are those who do like to track their cars. Having a 6 speed makes selecting the proper gear for a given turn much better. Keeping the car within its powerband as often as possible is important and relevant.

For those who complain about the lack of torque, 0-60 mph times, or 1/4 times... you guys do realize that a 5 speed would have taller/wider gears, and would make the car even slower, right? Of course, even with a 5 speed, the car could keep a similar gearing ratio, but at the expensive of top speed... and while top speed may not be relevant to everyone, I'd rather not take sacrifices because some people don't "need" the benefits of a 6 speed.

EDIT: I have an idea. Why not swap out the 2.0L boxer for a 1.6L boxer (non-turbo). We don't need the extra horsepower and torque for daily driving, and we'd get way better mpg's!!!

EDIT 2: Go buy Gran Turismo 6 and try driving multiple cars using both a 5 speed and 6 speed transmission for each car if you still need help understand the benefits of having a close-ratio 6 speed vs a wide-ratio 5 speed. The Evo 8 is a good example that I can recall, which comes with a 5 speed stock; Hint: it's difficult to be in the proper gear for most turns due to being either below the powerband or pegging the redline.

That was quite a response, but you read way too much into my comment.

Relax.

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by slicktop

That was quite a response, but you read way too much into my comment.

Relax.

My bad. There were several others that made similar comments, so I just lumped it all into one post and yours was the quote I used.

I also realize that most of said posts were probably sarcasm. But my point still stands.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Hanni_0176

The problem with skipping gears on upshifting, in terms of synchro's, is that you aren't rev-matching (or double-clutching).

No. Synchros have nothing to do with 'rev matching'. Synchros are basically clutches between the output shaft of the transmission (directly coupled to the wheels) and the input shaft of the transmission (coupled to the clutch). 'Rev matching' does very little to alleviate synchro wear since you're spinning the engine with the clutch decoupled which means your right foot has no effect on the input shaft of the transmission, which is all the synchros care about. That's why double clutching exists, back before synchros if you didn't have all the shafts matched up before sliding it in gear it would grind or lock you out.

Like any friction surface the source of wear is directly related to the difference in speed between the two objects. Why would 2->5 be any worse than 5->2? Because the input shaft is slowing of it's own accord? Unless you wait deliberately between gears or double clutch you're putting the same wear and tear in either direction.

Again, in the grand scheme of things it may not matter, but if you subscribe to the 'skip shifting is bad' idea, then it's bad in both directions without proper precautions.

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

No. Synchros have nothing to do with 'rev matching'. Synchros are basically clutches between the output shaft of the transmission (directly coupled to the wheels) and the input shaft of the transmission (coupled to the clutch). 'Rev matching' does very little to alleviate synchro wear since you're spinning the engine with the clutch decoupled which means your right foot has no effect on the input shaft of the transmission, which is all the synchros care about. That's why double clutching exists, back before synchros if you didn't have all the shafts matched up before sliding it in gear it would grind or lock you out.

Like any friction surface the source of wear is directly related to the difference in speed between the two objects. Why would 2->5 be any worse than 5->2? Because the input shaft is slowing of it's own accord? Unless you wait deliberately between gears or double clutch you're putting the same wear and tear in either direction.

Again, in the grand scheme of things it may not matter, but if you subscribe to the 'skip shifting is bad' idea, then it's bad in both directions without proper precautions.

Right, but rev-matching is still good for the transmission vs not doing so, and in all fairness, I usually do double-clutch when I downshift more than 1 gear down (like say from 5th to 2nd).

[f0rge]

3rd and 4th are my money gears for driving around town, 2nd is just a bit too short.

If anything 5th is redundant, by the time I'm going fast enough for 5th I might as well be in 6th.

[PSORngr]

I skip 5th on occasion. Getting up to 50 and then just cruise. Don't do it much, but that is the only one I will do on purpose w/o "real" reason.
I skip 2nd some mornings b/c this car seems to hate 2nd with a burning passion in cold weather before everything has warmed up.

[BlaineWasHere]

This car has so little torque I wish it had 14-speeeds.

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by PSORngr

I skip 5th on occasion. Getting up to 50 and then just cruise. Don't do it much, but that is the only one I will do on purpose w/o "real" reason.
I skip 2nd some mornings b/c this car seems to hate 2nd with a burning passion in cold weather before everything has warmed up.

I've found that shifting at around 2400-2500 rpm's makes shifting into 2nd much easier when the engine is cold, but I also warm the engine oil up to at least 80 degrees F before rollin out.

[FRSfan111]

2nd and 3rd feel the best. Just like in any car.

You are basically saying I like looking at my cake, but I don't want to eat it.

[R.S-HawK]

This thread...what?

2nd and 3rd gear are like, the life blood of the joy in driving this car.