Test drove BRZ, a few observations/questions

[gily25]

Like some of the others here I was shopping for a used Porsche Cayman S. I'll agree with you that the BRZ seems to underwhelm, it really needs an OEM Stage 1 turbo as an accessory for $3-5k. In fact I walked away after my FR-S saying, "I'll just wait for the right Porsche." The reality that sunk in was that I wanted a car I could toss into corners and I wanted to be able to buy a newer Cayman. I got mine just as they were new so I didn't have a full board of whiners to influence me.

When it's yours you learn you can push it close 5k and get a little more oomph. Also you learn where the corners of the car are and that lets you slide more. Sometimes when I see low mileage used I wonder if the PO even "experienced" the car fully (and/or their mods) before giving up.

[thill]

Originally Posted by mkiv808

Unfortunately E85 is not really available in my state. I think 190whp would be fine.

Doable:
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/3-...ults-and-tune/

Your looking at $3K or so with the parts and a tune. This car is not cheap to add power compared to other cars out there, but this car has the platform those other cars don't have and will be much more economical to track than most other cars.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by mkiv808

Unfortunately E85 is not really available in my state. I think 190whp would be fine.

If all you need is 190 whp on pump, here you go:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=273

Cost is right around $1k for OFT + OFH.

[yberther]

Have you driven a 08+ Cayman S?

That might be the power bump you can't get from an N/A BRZ, and keep the excellent handling/steering you like (290 vs 315)

For me, I couldn't justify the cost without having 4 seats of the 08+'s... And I'd feel silly buying a 7 year old car for 30k. Just something else to think about.

[thill]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

If all you need is 190 whp on pump, here you go:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=273

Cost is right around $1k for OFT + OFH.

That's pretty impressive but I wonder how reliable long term? The thing I respect about Perrin is that they tend to be conservative with their tunes and tune for reliability. But hey, for $1K that is a big gain on a stock car.

[mkiv808]

Originally Posted by yberther

Have you driven a 08+ Cayman S?

That might be the power bump you can't get from an N/A BRZ, and keep the excellent handling/steering you like (290 vs 315)

For me, I couldn't justify the cost without having 4 seats of the 08+'s... And I'd feel silly buying a 7 year old car for 30k. Just something else to think about.

It's actually the 09 that got the power bump. And yes, it's fun but it's not a HUGE difference from the 987.1. 987.2's are still pretty pricey (low 40's to 50's) and I'd rather use that money for the 981 in the future. They're also pretty tough to find.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by thill

That's pretty impressive but I wonder how reliable long term? The thing I respect about Perrin is that they tend to be conservative with their tunes and tune for reliability. But hey, for $1K that is a big gain on a stock car.

Vishnu is pretty well respected, starting with the BMW world. I think they've said in the past they don't trade reliability for the sake of a few more ponies with their tunes.

IMO tune + header is proving to be the most cost effective NA mods for this platform. About 20 whp there.

[mkiv808]

Originally Posted by thill

That's pretty impressive but I wonder how reliable long term? The thing I respect about Perrin is that they tend to be conservative with their tunes and tune for reliability. But hey, for $1K that is a big gain on a stock car.

From my research, it would seem the FT86 catted headers + Unichip to keep the warranty intact would be my best option?

[TimR]

I work at a Porsche dealer and the 981 is out of my reach, but I did seriously consider a 987 Cayman vs the BRZ. Ultimately the more friendly 2+2 interior spacing and lower cost of maintenance/repair pushed me to the BRZ.


I agree with most of the feedback here saying if you have to make major mods to be happy with it, then it's not the car for you.


I will add that on the track with Pilot Super Sports on stock wheels and slightly upgraded pads and fluid the car was very entertaining. I think there is great fun and learning in a momentum car on tight and twisty track. Don't think Road America would be tons of fun, but Blackhawk was a hoot.


I did upgrade to larger wheels and tires but cheaped out and got some pretty heavy wheels - I miss the steering feel of the stocker sized wheels with quality rubber.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Suberman

The point of this car is a bit Walter Mitty (now the movie is out this allusion can be understood by the new generation). The idea of this car is to have fun at legal ish speeds on the street and still have fun on a track without mods, or if you wish you can mod like crazy for not insane money and then approach the performance of much more expensive cars. To do that you need to keep the car until the warranty is over or TRD releases its fully warranteed supercharger kit we all just know Toyota has in its testing program....

Scion said the same BS back in 2005 with the TC and even had a supercharger in the TRD catalogue. The supercharger was never released as an actual option you could buy. For this reason alone, I have to think Toyota is completely averse to putting a factory FI into a Scion. It's too big a risk warranty-wise and likely won't make them money.

This is one of many reasons why I walked across the street and bought my 2005 STI. Subaru might do an STI version of the BRZ, but it probably won't be available in the US (like all the other non-WRX STIs), or it'll be in extremely limited quantities and horribly overpriced like the TS.

[utekineir]

With regard to na power: Recently i picked up borla Uel headers, Perrin 2.5 over pipe, catted Perrin 3" front pipe, and Perrin 3" catback. Also loaded up the appropriate Vishnu oft tune. Basically what was being suggested above except e85, since I can't get it local here either.

The stuck in the mud feeling in the torque dip is basically gone. The car is faster.

The car is still slow.

And the borla header makes it pretty loud, which would be ok if the car wasn't slow. Being slow and loud just feels like being a yapping dog. There are times though when the sound is pretty good, then there's the times you're accelerating in traffic making about as much noise as a semi staying side by side with a minivan feeling like a complete knob. Don't get me wrong. It mostly sounds good, but too much bark, not enough bite.

[mkiv808]

Originally Posted by utekineir

And the borla header makes it pretty loud, which would be ok if the car wasn't slow. Being slow and loud just feels like being a yapping dog. There are times though when the sound is pretty good, then there's the times you're accelerating in traffic making about as much noise as a semi staying side by side with a minivan feeling like a complete knob. Don't get me wrong. It mostly sounds good, but too much bark, not enough bite.

That's a bummer. Are there quieter catbacks to mate with the headers than the Perrin?

I can't see making this car terribly loud. There's not a great tone to amplify.

[utekineir]

Originally Posted by mkiv808

That's a bummer. Are there quieter catbacks to mate with the headers than the Perrin?

I can't see making this car terribly loud. There's not a great tone to amplify.

Well 3" is a bit overkill for na. And the catless borla header is the main noise culprit. This was basically a package at a price I couldn't refuse. I may actually throw back on the stock catback for inspection, considering the stance mass takes on aftermarket exhausts. Cold starts with this setup are vile, driving around enjoying the car is fantastic. Having a conversation while cruising uphill is hard, driving in traffic is shameful.

My point though was more about the fact that yes, header and tuning make the car feel much better through the torque dip, but in terms of power on this platform you're just polishing a turd without fi.

The roads I spend time on and for hwy cruising miles it isn't a big issue. But I'm not going to tell anyone that headers, exhaust, tune = race car.

It's a very good fun car for the costs involved and the practicality edge over a miata or cayman. But it isn't the automotive equivalent of Jesus walking on water.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mkiv808

Couple quick questions:

• For those that have switched to a better tire, for example the Pilot Super Sports - how much does the steering feel change? And with a more aggressive alignment?
• I haven't been able to find a replacement for the silver dash trim, any ideas?
• I've been reading up on power upgrades. I considered possibly going the turbo/supercharger route, but I might as well get a Cayman at that point considering what it may do to reliability and voiding the warranty, as well as the cost. So simple bolt-ons would be where I would go. It seems like header, front pipe, tune, and maybe lighter weight drive shaft are the more effective power mods? I don't think I would do headers, as I'd like to avoid CEL's and that whole hassle. Catless front pipe seems viable, as does a piggyback tune that I can reverse to keep the warranty intact. Maybe intake+exhaust for sound. Maybe aluminum driveshaft. Can I expect 15-20hp increase from those mods? I don't really care about power gains as much as I'd like for the car to feel more responsive and feel like it pulls a little better. Lighter weight wheels would probably be a good investment too.
• How are these cars stock on the track for an intermediate level driver? Mostly concerned about brake fade.

Gonna be a tough choice, which is a testament to this car! It's really great that someone is making a car with this level of fun and purity at this price point.

I like well thought out posts.

The steering feel will be enhanced. You'll get more feedback, without having the feedback be intrusive. Stickier tires will also make the steering a bit heavier.

You can always put on the FRS dash trim... which is black? Or faux-CF. I don't remember tbh.

A bolt-on supercharger will work with no other modifications. Several kits are available, including a tune that is plug and play. I would, however, recommend an engine oil cooler.

If you never had brake issues on the Cayman S or the E9x M3, then you won't have issues here. Just get pads and fluid.