This is not a winter car! Fed up! May end up selling...

[Gords_zenith]

Guys, guys, arguing wth suberman is like talking to brick wall! Stop wasting your breath on this fool. He just doesn't get it and is probably a 40 year old gamer who's driven on tracks only in gran turismo! I'll be the first to admit that I've never formerly taken a track a day but I've also had family that raced motorcycles all their lives, so ive been able to learn a thing or two from them.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Gords_zenith

Guys, guys, arguing wth suberman is like talking to brick wall! Stop wasting your breath on this fool. He just doesn't get it and is probably a 40 year old gamer who's driven on tracks only in gran turismo! I'll be the first to admit that I've never formerly taken a track a day but I've also had family that raced motorcycles all their lives, so ive been able to learn a thing or two from them.

Finally.

Although you've missed the mark by a considerable margin I agree arguing with me is futile.

Heavy hint, I argue for a living and get paid a lot to do so whether I win or lose.
I am always right, so give up.

[Dipstik-sportech]

So whether you win or lose you're always right? So you're insane? Wouldn't losing mean you were either wrong or did your job poorly? Damn lawyers

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Finally.

Although you've missed the mark by a considerable margin I agree arguing with me is futile.

Heavy hint, I argue for a living and get paid a lot to do so whether I win or lose.
I am always right, so give up.

Glad you finally admitted you don't actually know what you're talking about.

[P5yk0t1c]

OP: Put winter tires on and this thing drives like a beast in the snow. I drive like a maniac as I know the boundaries of my grip. Just get winters on and take it to an open parking lot and have fun. Get the feel for the slide and you will be more confident in the car.

[Gords_zenith]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Finally.

Although you've missed the mark by a considerable margin I agree arguing with me is futile.

Heavy hint, I argue for a living and get paid a lot to do so whether I win or lose.
I am always right, so give up.

The point is your not right! You maybe able to fool the local townies, but to us your an argumentative **** who pretends he knows something about cars! I get paid a lot to keep the lights on by splitting atoms! So give up trying to explain anything mechanical to anybody! And stick with pushing paper.

[Suberman]

You guys do take yourselves rather seriously.

Saying so don't make it so.

I've met some engineers who know very little outside their field of expertise.

How would you know if you're wrong?

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You guys do take yourselves rather seriously.

Saying so don't make it so.

Pot calling the kettle black methinks.

[Wilso]

I've had no issue in the deep snow, got through a foot of snow no problem :/ Hankook Ipike409s are what I use.. obviously some traction loss but no TCS and I got everywhere just fine :/

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You guys do take yourselves rather seriously.

Saying so don't make it so.

I've met some engineers who know very little outside their field of expertise.

How would you know if you're wrong?

The difference is that engineers know something about something, you don't seem to know how to do anything but spread bad information.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Heavy hint, I argue for a living and get paid a lot to do so whether I win or lose.
I am always right, so give up.

This is exactly how I would live my life if I wanted to not know a thing about anything.
We are always learning, the moment we stop, we may as well roll over and call it a life well wasted.

[krayzie]

I just want to point out that Tetsuya Tada was a chassis and electrical systems engineer with Toyota and worked for their European Rally Team. For example he made 53/47 weight distribution for the 86 on purpose. If one thinks there are any defects with the ZC6/ZN6 chassis design (like how 50/50 is supposely perfect) then I think one should consult with him first or simply just sell the car ROFL!

Next time buy a Range Rover for snow driving. This thread is beyond hillarious.

[Suberman]

Indeed, this car was well designed by thoroughly competent engineers.

They ended up with a car lousy to drive in winter.

Those who think this thread has gone off track are correct. Re-read the initial post, with which I agree entirely. This thread should be about what a crap car this is in very slippery conditions, why that might be so and what can be done about it. Driving skill is irrelevant. The original poster is highly skilled, as am I, and find this car to perform very poorly in winter. Nobody in this thread has been able to contradict these opinions. That's because the opinions are correct.

Then read this August 2013 article from Australia:

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...809-2rmvg.html

The man himself agrees this car could do with an upgrade for serious drivers.

Note particularly the reference to oversteer happening at much higher speeds.

This is exactly what I think is the problem with this car. In fact, the revised suspension should improve the winter handling as well.

No car developing only 150 lb ft of torque should oversteer under power. If it does it means it is a slower car than it could be, exactly what Tada is saying. Note his remarks about getting the power down and maintaining grip mid corner, exactly the problems in winter.

Note the upgrade is only suspension settings and tires, the engine and suspension geometry remain unchanged.

I hope the revised suspension settings become available as a retro fit kit. Probably the bump stops and dampers are all that will be changed. It sounds to me like the bump stops are too long, possibly too hard, and the dampers are too stiff in jounce. From Tada's description related in the article the factory intends to soften the damper rate (that means reducing the jounce rate) and possibly the spring rates although that likely doesn't mean the steel springs.

So, all you poseurs out there who think they know how to drive and how to design and build suspensions, as well apparently how suspension settings and tires affect handling should go back to the drawing board. Google some stuff, read Piero Taruffi and Paul Frere as well as Sir Jackie Stewart. Read some good books on car design, like Colin Campbell's two companion books:"The Sportscar, its design and performance"

[ame="http://www.amazon.ca/The-Sports-Car-Design-Performance/dp/0837601584"]The Sports Car: Its Design and Performance: Colin Campbell: 9780837601588: Books - Amazon.ca[/ame]

And his book on suspensions:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...pension-design

Once you find out what you really needed to know before you tried to contribute to this thread feel free to post again, but please not before.

Just what is the lap time for a nuclear power plant?

[jvincent]

Full of yourself much?

The article says that wider, stickier tires and a change in damper settings give the car much more grip. Well freakin' duh.

The OP complained because he got a low riding, light, RWD car stuck in the 8-10 inches of snow. He also mentioned that it was better with TRAC off. Again, duh. That happens to be what it says in the owners manual, i.e. disengage TRAC if you are stuck in snow.

Wider, stickier tires are not going to help this car in the winter. I can guarantee you than a minor change in the suspension tuning isn't going to magically change it either.

If you can't control the throttle properly in slippery conditions then you should really get another car for the winter and stop trying to push the blame for your poor winter driving skills onto the design of the car.