BRZ or Fiesta ST...why is BRZ better?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Brzetto

Economy car: FWD, hatchback and or 4 doors, horsepower varies
Sports car: RWD(some had FWD), coupe, 2 doors, horsepower varies.

Originally Posted by Brzetto

I edited it because it was too much, the simpler post was better. The yaris is a fwd economy car, very few economy cars have 2 doors but that one does. For the record the only person that thinks any of what I've said is contradicting is you. I know what I said before and none of it said anything about the yaris being a sports car. Stop sniffing kitty litter, your interpretations are way off. Btw the Panamera isn't a sports car, it's a luxury four door saloon, just like the Lancer Evolution is a rally car not a sports car.

I don't like batshit crazy people, stalk someone else.

according to the definition you provided, the yaris 2 door or things like the smart car are sports cars while the m4 and other ridiculously sporty cars are economy cars. either your definition is good and you think the smart car is a sports car as it meets every single criteria you give for being a sports car. or your definition is bad.
and im not stalking you. youre the one that keeps referring to me in conversations im not involved in.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by fourvalleys

A lot of the reason I didn't pick up a Focus ST had to do with the features for the price. I've put some good miles on friends' cars, and the Focus ST is one of the most fun newer cars I've driven. The BRZ is also fun in a different way. However, to get a Focus ST with navigation and all the goodies would have been a few thousand more, easily - even with incentives.

I would have had to think a lot harder if the Fiesta ST was available when I needed a car. Loaded they're optioned and priced similarly to the BRZ. The optional Recaros look GREAT and are comfortable unless you're bigger. The seating position is VERY upright and causes a very different driving feel. That made an even bigger difference to me than the RWD/FWD debate. If you don't feel comfortable sitting still, good luck feeling comfortable while you're on the move.

QFT - I've only sat in the Focus ST myself and that felt considerably more upright than the BRZ my buddy drove. I suspect the Fiesta will be along the same lines. Again, the basis of design started off from a different root so I can see why they aren't the same - nonetheless, Ford makes a compelling case with the pricing.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by fatoni

according to the definition you provided, the yaris 2 door or things like the smart car are not sports cars while the m4 and other similar 2 door coupes with front engine rear wheel drive(FR) are sports cars cars and im not stalking you. youre the one that keeps referring to me in conversations im not involved in.

There fixed it for ya and if you didn't troll so much people wouldn't mention you at all. I've seen other people mentioning you, you're the forum troll nobody wants to attract the attention of, get used to being Mr Grain of Salt. You did it to yourself.


Btw the Smart Car isn't really an economy car, it's a fake economy car, it was supposed to get good mpg and look like a mutant golf cart but it only succeeded at the latter. It has a shit crash rating, shit mpg and only a handful of idiots own the piece of shit.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Brzetto

Economy car: FWD, hatchback and or 4 doors, horsepower varies
Sports car: RWD(some had FWD), coupe, 2 doors, horsepower varies.

This is going into semantics.

The Fiesta ST isn't a sports car. I won't dispute that. And I could go on for hours on how Ford dilutes their cars for American consumption. Believe me, I watched the Focus for years hoping to buy one only to be disappointed. Try test driving a Fiesta ST compared to a regular Fiesta. Which, BTW, are 80-90% equipped with the AT Powershift. My guess is you'll appreciate how much they changed/improved.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Frost

QFT - I've only sat in the Focus ST myself and that felt considerably more upright than the BRZ my buddy drove. I suspect the Fiesta will be along the same lines. Again, the basis of design started off from a different root so I can see why they aren't the same - nonetheless, Ford makes a compelling case with the pricing.

The Focus ST felt like I was sitting in a compact SUV compared to the BRZ. That said, I would probably get used to the ride height, what I could not get used to is the artificial steering in the Ford. It just never felt right even though it handled very well.

I am seeing base Focus ST's near me for $19-20K including destination. Base Fiesta's should be going for no more than $17K I would think.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

This is going into semantics.

The Fiesta ST isn't a sports car. I won't dispute that. And I could go on for hours on how Ford dilutes their cars for American consumption. Believe me, I watched the Focus for years hoping to buy one only to be disappointed. Try test driving a Fiesta ST compared to a regular Fiesta. Which, BTW, are 80-90% equipped with the AT Powershift. My guess is you'll appreciate how much they changed/improved.

They shouldn't dilute their cars for Americans, a lot of us have style and class and know what we want in a car but for some reason the rest of the world thinks we are all unkempt rednecks. *shrug* I don't think I would ever want the drive an automatic car again unless it didn't come with a manual or I had an injury. I just looked at the Fiesta page, that car is hideous.

[00NissanNinja]

I pondered a Fiesta ST for a moment. It has more utility and I'd feel alright towing a motorcycle to the track with it. The extra utility and that it was slightly cheaper with similar power made me think about it for awhile. But, when it came down to it, the BRZ was really what I wanted. The feel of the car, the driving characteristics, handling, ergos, driving position, style, everything felt right for me. Utility isn't a huge deal for me, so in the end I went for what I always wanted; a RWD sports coupe with handling that amazes me. Honestly the BRZ has decent trunk space for what it is and good enough for me for the near future.

[synchromesh]

Originally Posted by Brzetto

They shouldn't dilute their cars for Americans, a lot of us have style and class and know what we want in a car but for some reason the rest of the world thinks we are all unkempt rednecks. *shrug* I don't think I would ever want the drive an automatic car again unless it didn't come with a manual or I had an injury. I just looked at the Fiesta page, that car is hideous.

good color, your an underdog. Good advertisement.

[a2cpc]

As the OP of this thread I had hoped for, and received, some good arguments. I would like to thank everyone for that. As I expected, no one can deliver a knock out of the other car. I was able to sit in both cars, back to back, at the Indy Car show last week. They both fit my needs, in different ways. I doubt I will ever get to test a ST like I did the BRZ, but it will be tested. I know how to drive FWD and RWD fast so the layout isn't much of a concern. It basically comes down to, do I want to drive a sporty economy car with good/cheap tuning potential, established racing heritage and good utility or do I want to drive a classically sports car shaped, sporty commuter coupe that has limited cheap tuning ability, no racing heritage and limited utility. I have pretty much come to the decision to wait for the 2015 models to be announced which could through the Mustang into the mix. Thanks again.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

This is going into semantics.

The Fiesta ST isn't a sports car. I won't dispute that. And I could go on for hours on how Ford dilutes their cars for American consumption. Believe me, I watched the Focus for years hoping to buy one only to be disappointed. Try test driving a Fiesta ST compared to a regular Fiesta. Which, BTW, are 80-90% equipped with the AT Powershift. My guess is you'll appreciate how much they changed/improved.

"dilute" is a big understatement. The US Focus was a different car entirely from the European (rest of the world) version until the current one. To get close to a European Focus you had to buy the Mazda 3 version.

Then Ford North America finally figured out what the rest of the World already knew. European designed Fords have been superior for decades now. Finally, we can buy one.

The latest "Fords from Europe" are the same as the ones actually built there.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by Suberman

"dilute" is a big understatement. The US Focus was a different car entirely from the European (rest of the world) version until the current one. To get close to a European Focus you had to buy the Mazda 3 version.

Then Ford North America finally figured out what the rest of the World already knew. European designed Fords have been superior for decades now. Finally, we can buy one.

The latest "Fords from Europe" are the same as the ones actually built there.

This is a perfect example!! Focus 500 Europe only (350 hp !!!!)

[Boxer486]

This is an easy decision that can be made on paper. Sounds like you're a power guy, not a chassis guy. If you don't know by now, either flip a coin or get the Mustang. BRZ/FRS is not for you or anyone else that has this much trouble figuring it out.

It's an enthusiasts car. If you aren't enthusiastic about it, cross it off your list.

[thill]

LOL, I doubt he is a power guy if he is asking about a Fiesta ST and a BRZ. It sounds like he wants something different otherwise he is better off staying in a WRX.

[EAGLE5]

I dunno. If you want every drive to be fun and special, get a twin. If you want a hot hatch, get a gti. In some ways the cars are comparable but they are essentially dramatically different. The only reasons an enthusiast would choose
an ST over a twin are price and utility. Well, maybe they also wanna race in a fwd class.

Originally Posted by a2cpc

As the OP of this thread I had hoped for, and received, some good arguments. I would like to thank everyone for that. As I expected, no one can deliver a knock out of the other car. I was able to sit in both cars, back to back, at the Indy Car show last week. They both fit my needs, in different ways. I doubt I will ever get to test a ST like I did the BRZ, but it will be tested. I know how to drive FWD and RWD fast so the layout isn't much of a concern. It basically comes down to, do I want to drive a sporty economy car with good/cheap tuning potential, established racing heritage and good utility or do I want to drive a classically sports car shaped, sporty commuter coupe that has limited cheap tuning ability, no racing heritage and limited utility. I have pretty much come to the decision to wait for the 2015 models to be announced which could through the Mustang into the mix. Thanks again.