max "potential" NA power. - Page 7 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

diss7 · 12-29-2013, 06:24 AM

I call BS at that claim. I raised my rev limit at it didn't like going past 7400, but once I replaced the front pipe that hesitation disappeared. Now it revs to 8000 quite happily.

StormTrooper · 12-29-2013, 06:28 AM

Several guys doing 8k rev limits for autoX.....only thing I noticed via the dyno plots is nothing past 75/7600 made more power. Seemed to really fall on it's face.

I'm guessing that is cam profile and headers but honestly not sure.

StormTrooper · 12-29-2013, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason@DSG

I work closely with all the manufacturers. There isn't much going on for N/A

Since the tuning has barely been worked out and companies are still getting development costs paid for on the bolt on parts they made i think that internals will be coming in a few years.

I mean headers designed with any kind of engineering input have just started to come out.

stevo_12v · 12-29-2013, 07:13 AM

E85 in a nutshell..

Edit: personally not a fan of E85. Sure its good for easy HP gains, but for long term? I wouldn't risk it on my engine just for a few extra hp..

diss7 · 12-29-2013, 07:29 AM

You don't need to run e85; water it down to e50 or e30. Most of the guys I know locally running ethanol in their track/drift cars run e30; there just isn't much gain to go further than that, from what I've seen anyway, I'm not a tuner.

diss7 · 12-29-2013, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Several guys doing 8k rev limits for autoX.....only thing I noticed via the dyno plots is nothing past 75/7600 made more power. Seemed to really fall on it's face.

I'm guessing that is cam profile and headers but honestly not sure.

I does feel to me on mine going to 8k is passing peak power, but I have it there to use as there is two comers at my local track that I'd hit 3rd limiter before the corner, now I don't. Also, I chop into 2nd on the hairpin, taking 2nd to redline then puts me at better power in 3rd. However back straight I don't take 4th to redline, I shift at 7700 or so, maybe sooner (not sure exactly I'm not looking at the tacho.) But my butt dyno says that it's better to shift before 8000 redline into 5th

brn12345 · 12-29-2013, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Several guys doing 8k rev limits for autoX.....only thing I noticed via the dyno plots is nothing past 75/7600 made more power. Seemed to really fall on it's face.

I'm guessing that is cam profile and headers but honestly not sure.

I would also include intake manifold runner length and chamber size. Always seems to be overlooked when NA performance is discussed. I have a feeling a proper top end tuned header with a proper intake manifold designed for higher revs would make significant improvements beyond 7600rpm.

StormTrooper · 12-29-2013, 08:00 AM

Anything besides valve springs need to be swapped for reliability at 8k?

Bahraini86 · 12-29-2013, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brn12345

I would also include intake manifold runner length and chamber size. Always seems to be overlooked when NA performance is discussed. I have a feeling a proper top end tuned header with a proper intake manifold designed for higher revs would make significant improvements beyond 7600rpm.

Cams and springs too

Jason@DSG · 12-29-2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo_12v

E85 in a nutshell..

Edit: personally not a fan of E85. Sure its good for easy HP gains, but for long term? I wouldn't risk it on my engine just for a few extra hp..

I have a customer going through a 15k engine build with me because he detonated due to e85 mix being off...

It needs to constantly be retuned and check. The blend changes throughout the season. I always stick to 93oct or race fuel

Dephective · 12-29-2013, 02:02 PM

that's why if you run e85 you run flex fuel for the safety. Also the B series heads vs ours, nobody knows what the head will flow. it's never been bench flowed as far as I know. and if guys are making 600hp without any head work, I'd say it's safe to say that that's not the case. sure it's a great motor, but to make that power you need at least cams. that's already comparing stock to modified. Nobody has done anything on these motors yet so don't say it can't be done. you are basing your info off nothing.

yes vtec has different cam profiles that also effects exhaust, but you can still make decent power with mild cam upgrades. it's obvious that you can't be convinced, so I'll let the market do that when it's ready for it.

and as far as what's needed to do cams, there's no point in drop in cams. if you do it, full valve train needs to be done. titanium springs, retainers, valves, and probably replace the buckets too.

Dipstik-sportech · 12-29-2013, 02:38 PM

I'm only going of what has been shown so far. Na at this point isn't there in terms of parts availability.
You can over come poor head design by cramming more boost at it.
Sent from, The Frozen North

stevo_12v · 12-29-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Anything besides valve springs need to be swapped for reliability at 8k?

Titanium valve springs!!

And probably a fair bit of ceramic coating on those engine bay goodies

Ice · 01-02-2014, 12:10 AM

The problem with this engine is that you only have control of one aspect of the cams, you cant use varying lifts, duration, ramp angles etc like the Honda guys have access too. (At least AFAIK, I come from static heads)

Which means that to maintain downlow you have to compromise.

Hopefully by the time I have the coin together for BRZ theres some better gear out and about

12-29-2013, 02:02 PM	#95
Dephective Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: '13 Whiteout FRS Location: Bay Area, Florida Posts: 233 Thanks: 110 Thanked 79 Times in 58 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	that's why if you run e85 you run flex fuel for the safety. Also the B series heads vs ours, nobody knows what the head will flow. it's never been bench flowed as far as I know. and if guys are making 600hp without any head work, I'd say it's safe to say that that's not the case. sure it's a great motor, but to make that power you need at least cams. that's already comparing stock to modified. Nobody has done anything on these motors yet so don't say it can't be done. you are basing your info off nothing. yes vtec has different cam profiles that also effects exhaust, but you can still make decent power with mild cam upgrades. it's obvious that you can't be convinced, so I'll let the market do that when it's ready for it. and as far as what's needed to do cams, there's no point in drop in cams. if you do it, full valve train needs to be done. titanium springs, retainers, valves, and probably replace the buckets too. __________________ Previous: '01 Accord-daily '93 Rx7-fire breathing track monster 545hp 397tq 2300lb. '06 Mazdaspeed6 one helluva love-hate relationship

12-29-2013, 02:38 PM	#96
Dipstik-sportech Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Drives: 2013 BRZ satin white pearl sportech Location: Thunder Bay Ontario Canada Posts: 1,813 Thanks: 842 Thanked 911 Times in 576 Posts Mentioned: 43 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I'm only going of what has been shown so far. Na at this point isn't there in terms of parts availability. You can over come poor head design by cramming more boost at it. Sent from, The Frozen North __________________ 2013 SWP BRZ sportech. 11.11sec@129.01mph, 511whp on e70. FullBlown base kit, FullBlown built 9.5:1 engine, GTX3076R GEN2 turbo, 1700cc Bosch injectors, FullBlown flex fuel kit, FullBlown radiator and oil cooler, FullBlown custom 3" dual exit exhaust, act xtreme clutch, whiteline diff and subframe inserts, BC Racing coilovers, hotchkiss 18mm rear sway, is300 3.73 differential ... Never finished

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12-29-2013, 06:24 AM	#85
diss7 Banned Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: AE86, 2x GT86, TE27 Location: Christchurch NZ Posts: 1,478 Thanks: 826 Thanked 1,179 Times in 522 Posts Mentioned: 33 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I call BS at that claim. I raised my rev limit at it didn't like going past 7400, but once I replaced the front pipe that hesitation disappeared. Now it revs to 8000 quite happily.

12-29-2013, 07:29 AM	#89
diss7 Banned Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: AE86, 2x GT86, TE27 Location: Christchurch NZ Posts: 1,478 Thanks: 826 Thanked 1,179 Times in 522 Posts Mentioned: 33 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	You don't need to run e85; water it down to e50 or e30. Most of the guys I know locally running ethanol in their track/drift cars run e30; there just isn't much gain to go further than that, from what I've seen anyway, I'm not a tuner.

01-02-2014, 12:10 AM	#98
Ice Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Drives: 323 Location: Australia Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The problem with this engine is that you only have control of one aspect of the cams, you cant use varying lifts, duration, ramp angles etc like the Honda guys have access too. (At least AFAIK, I come from static heads) Which means that to maintain downlow you have to compromise. Hopefully by the time I have the coin together for BRZ theres some better gear out and about

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