Is the BRZ interesting to drive when the roads aren't twisty?

[reeves]

Driving position is the most perfect of any car I've ever driven.. that's enough to keep me loving the drive after a year of owning it. And like others have said, steering feel, shifting, brake feel are all excellent too.

[infinite012]

Originally Posted by jblmr2

It can be tires also. I ran a couple of sets of Toyo Proxes 4's on my MR2 and had that problem for the first 5 or 6K miles. I'm running Nitto's on it now and didn't get that darty feeling with them.

Using OEM Michelin Primacy tires and also have Continental DW tires on my 18s.

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by Kiske

Yes, you will always be swerving on straight roads avoiding others...

I swear the brz attracts more bad drivers around it than any other car I've owned. I'm constantly avoiding people pulling out without looking, merging ect...

Because, the 86 is so small, and Low...some people can mindlessly get into your way. Especially those pulling out from the side road, they may not see your car, as it is hidden within the A pillar from their view LOL!!

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

Because, the 86 is so small, and Low...some people can mindlessly get into your way. Especially those pulling out from the side road, they may not see your car, as it is hidden within the A pillar from their view LOL!!

Good reason to have hella horns. I had similar issues with the STI. It basically went unnoticed by the women driving big SUVs and yakking on their cell phones with their girl friends and kids in the back... and they'd change lanes to right in front of me as I was boosting, and not even bother to signal and my only warning was noticing that they were doing more than drifting in the lane.

The problem is even moreso with the smaller BRZ.

I want a train horn. That'll wake 'em up!

[Slipstream]

Originally Posted by MidnightRunner

You can't make yourself love something just because everyone else does. I know there's a lot of hype about the 86s, but if you're a torque kind of guy it might not be your match. To each his own, and I hope you get the car that fits your criteria best. Good luck!

In fairness - I DO love the BRZ. It is the car that finally convinced me to sell my trusty Rabbit and buy something fun and engaging. I just made the mistake of asking for alternatives amongst car friends and now I'm all turned around. The GT test drive also awoke an interest in power; something I've never had before (most HP I've ever had at my disposal was 185hp). I now understand why so many people claim that +50hp on the 86 would make an already amazing car... PERFECT.

Which raises another question - are there any solid mod strategies outside of superchargers that give the BRZ a swift kick to the torque curve? Solving the power problem is sort of the last piece of the puzzle. At that point, depreciation concerns and other issues go out the window. I'd keep it forever.

Originally Posted by userjack6880

If you drive on public roads, think to yourself which is more enjoyable. Having a massive beast you have to keep within the lower 20% of what it can do or have a small fun car that can give you 50%+ of what it can do and still be legalish?

I'd much rather be pushing an underpowered well handling car rather than trying to keep a 500hp beast under the speed limit.

Great points. I worry about having to wrestle with the GT on a daily basis, vs. flogging a BRZ or Z Coupe if/when I want to. 420hp sounds great but it's not like I can get far in traffic with that. I scared myself a bit on my test drive while on the interstate - a mis-placed burst of WOT and I definitely felt like I was just along for the ride. 250-350hp seems like my sweet spot.

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

I came from a 500 horse powered 03 mustang cobra and I can tell you that you are comparing apples and oranges here. The FRS/BRZ have a TON of personality. I test drove a new 5.0 and after the cobra, I wasn't impressed. It's big, lacks torque (well, not compared to an 86) and felt numb.

…..If you want some thing small, nimble, rewarding, and can put a smile on your face when you hit that round about off ramp at stupid speeds, or even just driving around town, go with the 86.

Good news is that you will win in either case. Downfall of the mustang is cost. It's a good $10k more expensive than the 86 and IMHO is pretty numb. Downfall of the 86 is power and torque. It really is a gutless wonder with a TON of personality.

"Numb" is a good way to put it. The GT definitely handled a lot better than I expected it to but there was always a feeling of disconnectedness to it. It obeyed my commands but didn't really want to, where the BRZ felt like it knew what I wanted before I even asked (and happily obliged).

The Mustangs I'm looking at are a year or two old - domestic depreciation puts them almost exactly at what I'm looking at for a new BRZ. Thus the dilemma. The Z Coupe is still the oddball, as it slots in a lot lower in price but the maintenance potential goes way up.

Originally Posted by Hanni_0176

I guess it depends what you want the car for. I'm not worried about having the fastest street light race car, and I'm not concerned with bragging rights on having the fastest car on the road. I haven't done any street racing since I was a teenager. If you want a car that feels good to drive, that is unique and gets tons of stares everyday, this car may be for you. If you want to have a fast straight line car, then the Mustang GT is a much better fit.

On a final note, I'll end with this. I bought this car with the expectation of modding it. 200 hp is fairly low for a sports car, but I felt like this platform was going to be great to start from, and that opinion still hasn't changed for me. What I really wanted was an affordable and practical Lotus Elise, and I feel like that is exactly what I got with my FR-S. FWIW, the Elise has less hp/tq than the FT86 (albeit it weighs significantly less). My eventual goal is to get this car up to around 360 whp, although I may find myself satisfied with less. I won't get to take her out to the track until next spring, so until then, straight roads it is and twisty on-ramps it is.

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm 32 - I don't care if I'm a stoplight champion, and I don't care about having the most horsepower in town. I want something that is engaging and exciting every time I pull out of the driveway and is interesting to look at it and own. The fascination with the GT is primarily performance-per-dollar; it's hard to ignore 420hp in a RWD package for less than $25k (lightly used). Perhaps the GT is my logical side talking... and aren't sports cars supposed to be emotional purchases? lol

Originally Posted by autobrz

Perhaps you can get into autocross. Aren't the nationals held in Lincoln?

This is actually one of the big reasons I first took notice of the BRZ. I autocrossed the Rabbit in non-SCCA competitions the last two years and had a blast, but immediately realized the problem of a fat FWD hatchback with weak brakes and suspension. It's time to find a more appropriate tool for the job, especially if I want to get involved in the local SCCA chapter.

That said - I'm barely a novice so I don't want to buy a (new) car exclusively for what is a passing hobby at the moment. It has to be a solid contender in the other areas of my life too. That's what I'm trying to determine at this point.

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Good reason to have hella horns. I had similar issues with the STI. It basically went unnoticed by the women driving big SUVs and yakking on their cell phones with their girl friends and kids in the back... and they'd change lanes to right in front of me as I was boosting, and not even bother to signal and my only warning was noticing that they were doing more than drifting in the lane.

The problem is even moreso with the smaller BRZ.

I want a train horn. That'll wake 'em up!

LOL!! I think that ain't hard to do at home. Legal or not, I have no idea.

[SirBrass]

A good header will help knock out that torque dip, but not as well as a turbo or supercharger.

E85, headers, catback, intake, tune. Those are what can be done to improve the NA power, but they won't get you anywhere near 250 WHP (and trust me, you'll be "along for the ride" at 350 WHP in this car). A good SC or turbo kit will get you there easily at low boost (5-8 psi) and a good tune... the tune is critical, absolutely critical.

Also look into better tires. More grippy tires will transfer what torque you do have into motion faster than the slippy Primacy tires. You won't need really grippy tires till you go FI, at which point, don't use the Primacy tires under boost... that kind of torque will break them loose way too easily (since they break easily on the low torque of the stock BRZ).

Originally Posted by Whitigir

LOL!! I think that ain't hard to do at home. Legal or not, I have no idea.

Expensive, though, and adds weight with the compressor to spool up the necessary air pressure to drive the horn. And legal? Nope. But I'd LOVE to see the reaction of those freeway bozos when the little car they almost ran over without thinking gives them a multiple hundreds DB (maybe that's exaggerating, but those horns do carry far and well) blast of train horn in reply.

[Kelbyat07]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

I came from a 500 horse powered 03 mustang cobra and I can tell you that you are comparing apples and oranges here. The FRS/BRZ have a TON of personality. I test drove a new 5.0 and after the cobra, I wasn't impressed. It's big, lacks torque (well, not compared to an 86) and felt numb.

For the lack of horsepower, I was SHOCKED at just how much personality and how much fun the FRS/BRZ can be! I had a blast on my test drive (on a side note, it was on wet roads in the rain). I got back in my cobra and it felt HUGE!!! The power was still AMAZING and beastly, but it lacked the creature comforts of the FRS I test drove.

I sold my beloved cobra a week later and purchased my FRS. Miss the power of the cobra and the crazy brut force it offered, but I don't regret the switch at all.

If you are looking for a car to go quickly in a straight line, handle pretty damn well and looks freakin' killer, the mustang is for you. I still LOVE mustangs and will be a Ford guy to the grave BUT…..

…..If you want some thing small, nimble, rewarding, and can put a smile on your face when you hit that round about off ramp at stupid speeds, or even just driving around town, go with the 86.

Good news is that you will win in either case. Downfall of the mustang is cost. It's a good $10k more expensive than the 86 and IMHO is pretty numb. Downfall of the 86 is power and torque. It really is a gutless wonder with a TON of personality.

Yu it's true, the FRS/BRZ has a lot of personality. It has more to offer than accelerating in a straight line. I personally love the boxer sound when you put some gas on the car. The car really taught me a lot about handling, I would advise you to test drive it and you will understand what most owners are talking about.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Slipstream

"Numb" is a good way to put it. The GT definitely handled a lot better than I expected it to but there was always a feeling of disconnectedness to it. It obeyed my commands but didn't really want to, where the BRZ felt like it knew what I wanted before I even asked (and happily obliged).

The Mustangs I'm looking at are a year or two old - domestic depreciation puts them almost exactly at what I'm looking at for a new BRZ. Thus the dilemma. The Z Coupe is still the oddball, as it slots in a lot lower in price but the maintenance potential goes way up.

In the older mustangs (pre 2005), there is more connection as far as driver input is concerned, they are still a bear to control at times, which the newer ones fix nicely. This "fix" for control is what IMHO makes the car feel numb.

As far as depreciation is concerned, I wouldn't worry about that area too much. The twins have already lost about $5k in value in the first year (My car was $26k or so new and now KBB's for $20,500 or lower….I know, I know KBB isn't everything, but banks use it, so I tend to stick with it). Might not be a bad idea to look for a clean, used example as they can be had for $20k-$23k with low miles, and limited chance for abuse as it is only a year old car.

Good luck in your search! Make sure to post on your decision with pics!!

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

In the older mustangs (pre 2005), there is more connection as far as driver input is concerned, they are still a bear to control at times, which the newer ones fix nicely. This "fix" for control is what IMHO makes the car feel numb.

As far as depreciation is concerned, I wouldn't worry about that area too much. The twins have already lost about $5k in value in the first year (My car was $26k or so new and now KBB's for $20,500 or lower….I know, I know KBB isn't everything, but banks use it, so I tend to stick with it). Might not be a bad idea to look for a clean, used example as they can be had for $20k-$23k with low miles, and limited chance for abuse as it is only a year old car.

Good luck in your search! Make sure to post on your decision with pics!!

I have no idea how they would abuse it. I mean, they could easily have done

1/ Every day Cold start, free Rev to warm up the engine
2/ Auto Cross several days a week
3/ Pulling parts, installing after markets
4/ Have their Pet Piss on the carpet
5/ Have Sex in it, and Liquid get every where
6/ Scrapes, scratches, dings, dents (Mind you, Body works, and Paints are super expensive)
7/ ......


I would rather pay 7-8k more for a Brand new car with 5 miles on it. That 7-8k is way Worth it for a NEW car...I would say Pop a Cherry. That 7-8k is way worth it...for a Shinny car

Now, if I was to save 15k ...I would buy used, and don't mind the rest

[daiheadjai]

Find your nearest highway on-ramp/off-ramp.

Downshift/rev-match/double-clutch to heart's content.

Rinse and repeat as necessary.

That's what I do in fun-deprived Toronto driving.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

I have no idea how they would abuse it. I mean, they could easily have done

1/ Every day Cold start, free Rev to warm up the engine
2/ Auto Cross several days a week
3/ Pulling parts, installing after markets
4/ Have their Pet Piss on the carpet
5/ Have Sex in it, and Liquid get every where
6/ Scrapes, scratches, dings, dents (Mind you, Body works, and Paints are super expensive)
7/ ......


I would rather pay 7-8k more for a Brand new car with 5 miles on it. That 7-8k is way Worth it for a NEW car...I would say Pop a Cherry. That 7-8k is way worth it...for a Shinny car

Now, if I was to save 15k ...I would buy used, and don't mind the rest

lol, I obviously hit a button with you.

1. First off, you need to think about people that keep these cars with low milage. They usually do not abuse them and usually baby them. I'm talking about MAJOR abuse for long periods of time (years), like what a lot of the S2000's have gone through. Also, the car is still under warranty….if something happens to go wrong, it's covered.

2. Autox several days a week? Where do you live that you can autos "several" days a week? We get two days, once a month in San Diego. I want to live where you live. While autox will cause some wear, I would be more concerned about open tracking where the car is pouched for 20 minutes at a time at it's limits.

3. Pulling parts and installing other parts….who cares? 90% of these cars are getting coilovers, exhaust and an intake. I plan on pulling my parts when I sell. It won't make my car any less taken care of and clean.

4. LOL at the pets pissing in the car. Carpet don't cost $8k to replace and a shampoo for the interior is even cheaper.

5. Having sex in it. That could be interesting. See above.

6. He would see the car and if it had all that you listed, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't buy it.

The reason's you gave are a stretch. Possible, but slim. With a car that is under warranty, it eliminates half your list. The rest is stuff that is easily avoided (scratches, dings dents) by seeing the car in person, and a good cleaning. I personally, shampoo my interiors anyway when I buy a used car.

You are willing to pay $5k-$8k MORE for a squeaky clean car that is going to get dings, scratches, rock chips, spills over the time you own it, just so you can say, "at least I did it and not someone else." I have a lot of what you listed. All very minor and I am probably the ONLY person that will ever notice that they are there. Never had one of my pets pee in the car, and the size of the car makes it hard to have sex in unless you are dating a gymnast….although at that point I would say

A $5k-$8k savings will buy you FI for the car. Just saying. If I could do it over again, I would have waited for a used one.

[doggieboy09]

I've lived in Chicago, Virginia, and now Northern California. I've past by Nebraska multiple times in my life when I had a WRX. While I do enjoy my BRZ a lot, I live in a place where there are twisty roads and multiple autocross events every month. Based upon my experience in Nebraska, you are better off with a Mustang GT or WRX. If I didn't live in Northern California, I would be driving something faster. Just check out savagegeese on youtube, he's an FR-S owner who lives in the midwest.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by infinite012

It's boring and darty on the highway. You will constantly be correcting the steering wheel trying to go in a straight line.

Mine used to move around in a straight line on certain roads. Especially sensitive to certain surfaces on single track country roads where you straddle the camber. Since fitting a strut brace[Grimmspeed] I haven't noticed it.