Autocross/Insurance

[pseudo]

Hey Guys,

I signed up for a rally cross event through SCCA in a few weeks, but I am starting to have second thoughts about going through with it.

I am a competent driver, and I don't plan on pushing the car to 110%, but I did a quick google search to see how insurance works with these sorts of events and have seen tons of horror stories.

I dug through my policy and found the following under exemptions:
to any vehicle resulting from, or sustained during practice or preparation for:
a. any pre-arranged or organized racing, stunting, speed, or demolition contest or activity; or
b. any driving activity conducted on a permanent or temporary racetrack or race-course;

This sounds to me like any auto cross claim would be denied. I would really like to be responsible with my driving and keep it off the public roads, but with this sort of language in my policy, coupled with horror stories that I have read about insurance companies dropping coverage merely for finding your name on an autoX results sheet, I don't know if it's worth it or not.

Does anyone have experience with insurance claims at events like these? Any recommendations for me? As I understand it, these events are usually pretty safe, however, I am not in a position to take a loss on my car, even if the risk is remote.

p.s. my insurance company is Progressive.

[7thgear]

yes, your regular insurance will not cover your damage during a race event. This is standard and i'm surprised you would think otherwise.

yes, if your insurance company finds out that you race your car when you told them that you didn't, they will drop you, because you lied to them

yes, it has happened occasionally but AFAIK i have only ever read about someone being dropped on internet forums. I personally have not met a single autocrosser/time-attacker that this supposedly happeened to.

you may obtain race-day insurance, but this is an american thing and i don't know the specifics, someone else may fill you in.


if the rallycross that you want to do is the rallycross that i'm thinking about, i personally wouldn't do it in a car that i couldn't walk away from should it be written off.

this goes for any racing really. If the loss of your vehicle will drastically affect your day-to-day, then don't race it, simple as that.

[Wepeel]

From what I know personally:

I know of autocross accidents that were covered under normal auto insurance, but that is probably the exception to the norm. It really depends on how the exclusions are specifically worded and the details of the autocross event (i.e. if it's an autocross at a motorsports facility vs. shopping mall). Seeing how your policy is worded, it doesn't look like you would be covered.

For track days/HPDE, you can buy separate insurance which would cover accidents on track, but I don't think anything like that exists for autocross, unfortunately.

As low risk as autocross is, accidents will and do happen, and there are things you might not even think to account for (other cars going badly off course, inexperienced course workers causing hazardous situations, course design, fluids leaking on track, accidents in paddock/grid, etc etc etc). I would imagine there's a little more risk in rallycross, due to varying course condition.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

yes, it has happened occasionally but AFAIK i have only ever read about someone being dropped on internet forums. I personally have not met a single autocrosser/time-attacker that this supposedly happeened to.

you may obtain race-day insurance, but this is an american thing and i don't know the specifics, someone else may fill you in.

I know of a few people who have been dropped. However, it's been after the insurance company agreed to fix the car even though it was in violation.

Track insurance won't cover an autocross or time trial event. The use of timing equipment instantly denies the claim.

[BoostinIX]

Accidents happen, if you're not comfortable with the possibility, don't do it. Get a toy car you don't care about as a track car.

Also- should the false claim make it through and be paid out on, and it's later caught? Helloooooo fraud.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by pseudo

Hey Guys,

I signed up for a rally cross event through SCCA in a few weeks, but I am starting to have second thoughts about going through with it.

Ok, I am getting confused with your post - is it an autocross event or a rally cross?

Both are not the same and have very different tier structuring.

Both of which are never covered by conventional daily driver insurance.

Autocross or autoslalom or solo as SCCA calls it is done on tarmac.

Rallycross is done on dirt or gravel and may or may not involve tarmac and change of surface types. It is usually not as intense as true rally event (which involves yumps and truly scary things which will demolish cars) and meant to be a higher than road-rally entry level into full on rally racing.

For either event, insurance has the right to deny you coverage for damages sustained in the event and it can potentially lead to them denying you claims down the road due to damages sustained in the event. Eg: You slam headfirst into a tier barrier. You take it to a shop, they fix it. You then rear end someone on a public road. Insurance can see that it was previously repaired AND if not up to their standards can deny or charge you more to fix it back to their standards. True story, had this happen to a co-worker's Accord V6 that he ran on a road rally up here in Canada. He was driving along at speed limit (here, beginner road rallys are run at the road's speed limit) and realized he was about to go OC (off course) thanks to a navigation error and hit an extended curb with only his left front wheel and literally jumped up in the air about 1-2 feet. Kept driving and finished the rally but he noticed that his front left was now squeaky when he pulls sharp turns. He got that addressed and then kept it on as a DD.

He then got into an accident when someone hit his left front side (not his fault) and then claimed insurance. They found "previously repaired damages that was unreported" and deemed it wasn't up to their standards and wound up backcharging some of the damages to him. He was lucky they didn't outright deny his claim (which technically is wrong but they could've just to see if he would fight it).

Long story short: insurance companies don't like it when you take their normal policy and stretch it to cover racing activities.

[BigFatFlip]

First off, I really hope the OP meant rallyx but as everyone above mentioned, its not as easy as switching insurance or finding a work around. This is basically how insurance company's make their money: you pay a premium and they take a chance/risk/bet that you don't damage your car. Signing up for an event drastically increases that risk and they lose money, hence they don't want anything to do with it.

As others suggested, you can always look for "event coverage" or a separate car insurance for the day of the event. This is very common for track days, because of the high speed+barriers to hit+large chance of injury, and can run you about $70 a day. I don't think I've ever found anything for autox or rallyx, just because the risk for expensive damage or traumatic injury is very minimal (not saying it can't happen) worst case, you hit a cone and get some paint damage.

I would say just take it upon yourself, be mindful of your skill and your limits. Look at the course and see if you are comfortable with it. Rallyx/autox courses are usually done in very large open areas, but if there is a section that is way too close to a wall/berm/curb than you are comfortable with, take it slow or not do it at all.

Unfortunately, any kind of motorsports has its risks, whether it be go-karting or rallying, its up to you to decide if the risk-to-reward ratio is right for you.

[pseudo]

Thanks for all the responses guys, I appreciate your input.

For clarification, I did mean rally cross. However, I would like to get into both autoX and rallyX, so my words just kind of mixed together.


The event that I am looking at attending is the wolf chase rally on Barker Farm in Vermont.


I understand insurance companies not wanting to cover events like these, and in a free economy, they have that right. However, I don't think asking the question is that outrageous. People take risks on public roads like speeding or cornering sharply and insurance companies payout in that situation. Rally crossing is also taking a calculated risk, and from the sounds of it, a small one at that.


I think that I have my answer though, with my current policy at least, I am definitely not covered.


Not sure that I will be attending in that case - i'll just play it safe and go drift some public roads!

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by pseudo

People take risks on public roads like speeding or cornering sharply and insurance companies payout in that situation.

they'll pay out

sure

but try renewing a policy with a suspended licence

[pseudo]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

they'll pay out

sure

but try renewing a policy with a suspended licence

If the same held true for rallyX i would be fine with that, and IMO would be fair. Pay out and drop me as a customer. I fail to see any distinction other than the fact that they have an excuse not to payout the policy at that point.


Also, I didn't lie about racing to my insurance company, to this point I have not done any autoX/rallyX events. If i could report it to them, have my premiums increase (like they should) and be covered, I would be all over that.


However, I have heard stories of insurance companies dropping customers merely for asking the question, so. idk...

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by pseudo

If the same held true for rallyX i would be fine with that, and IMO would be fair. Pay out and drop me as a customer. I fail to see any distinction other than the fact that they have an excuse not to payout the policy at that point.

because a potential accident on the street is calculated into your risk rating and reflected by your premium, it is essentially why group insurance exists

an accident on a track is neither expected, calculted, or reflected by your premium. It is not part of your contract.

[pseudo]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

because a potential accident on the street is calculated into your risk rating and reflected by your premium, it is essentially why group insurance exists

an accident on a track is neither expected, calculated, or reflected by your premium. It is not part of your contract.

Like I said, I would be okay paying a higher premium if it meant that I could safely autoX/rallyX my car. From the sounds of it, these events don't exactly have a high accident rate, and as such - an actuary looking at the data should deem the sport an insurable risk. Find the magic number, increase my premiums and sign me up.


You are making it sound like I want/expect to race my car full out, crash it and get a free new car. I was being responsible by asking the question before I hit the track, it wasn't an unreasonable question and I got my answer.


I don't understand why you have such strong feelings towards my viewpoint on it, though. What makes autoX/rallyX so much more dangerous than a 20 year old driving a riced out civic through the city? Pretty sure that mathematically the civic is at a higher risk for a claim...

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by pseudo

Like I said, I would be okay paying a higher premium if it meant that I could safely autoX/rallyX my car. From the sounds of it, these events don't exactly have a high accident rate, and as such - an actuary looking at the data should deem the sport an insurable risk. Find the magic number, increase my premiums and sign me up.

this would be nice, but unfortunetly we're too small a demographic for the mass insurance companies. It's much more cost efficient for them to do nothing and simply deny the very few that come their way.

Originally Posted by pseudo

You are making it sound like I want/expect to race my car full out, crash it and get a free new car. I was being responsible by asking the question before I hit the track, it wasn't an unreasonable question and I got my answer.

I was just curious what your thought process was.

Originally Posted by pseudo

I don't understand why you have such strong feelings towards my viewpoint on it, though. What makes autoX/rallyX so much more dangerous than a 20 year old driving a riced out civic through the city? Pretty sure that mathematically the civic is at a higher risk for a claim...

that's not really about what you or i think, but what the insurance companies think, and they don't think like we do, in fact, they don't care.


at least you're in the states and can get race-day insurance! It was brought up, so look into that.

[pseudo]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

this would be nice, but unfortunetly we're too small a demographic for the mass insurance companies. It's much more cost efficient for them to do nothing and simply deny the very few that come their way.

I think that sums it up pretty well, actually.

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

As others suggested, you can always look for "event coverage" or a separate car insurance for the day of the event. This is very common for track days, because of the high speed+barriers to hit+large chance of injury, and can run you about $70 a day. I don't think I've ever found anything for autox or rallyx, just because the risk for expensive damage or traumatic injury is very minimal (not saying it can't happen) worst case, you hit a cone and get some paint damage.

The interwebs that I had been reading stated that raceday insurance was basically 1/3 the price of your car and completely insane. If there was someway to get reasonable rates for this, I would be very interested. Are you thinking of just personal liability insurance, or did you mean collision as well?


Does anyone have experience with raceday insurance for rallyX/autoX?