STS Turbo Kit

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

What octane were those graphs generated on? What is the 220 whp run? Non-intercooled or something?

Not sure on the 220whp run, probably a preliminary tune compared to one that's more dialed in. These runs are on 91 Utah pump gas.

Doing some math I get ~510ci to fill a 6 foot 3" pipe, and around 450ci for a 12 foot 2" pipe. So the time to fill each pipe should be about the same. The Intercooler isn't giant, around 2.75" thick. Supposedly the longer pipe going under the car helps cool the air charge and reduce the dependency on a large intercooler. Keeping the intercooler size reasonable should also help with the response.

I expect there to be a bit less responsiveness, due to the turbine not being able to take advantage of the expanding exhaust right out of the engine. With that said, most aftermarket turbo offerings use pretty long runners and noone is complaining about the lack of response in comparison to other turbocharged cars that mount the turbo closer.

I hope the car still has good response. This looks like a more viable option to me. CARB legal and capable of quite a bit of power. You can also take out the price of the exhaust since this kit isn't really dependent on exhaust sizing. Though it couldn't hurt to delete one of the cats... or put on a nice header design. I would like to put this setup to the test at Miller Motorsports Park.

[Coheed]

So, if the response and lag isn't an issue... what would be holding one back from considering this kit?

[Avo1789]

Originally Posted by Coheed

So, if the response and lag isn't an issue... what would be holding one back from considering this kit?

A nice, in-depth test drive/review from you and some potential first buyers in the forum would help me consider

CARB approval will also be very smart on their part, considering the limitations we have in California for F/I. Please keep us posted!

[Ludacrits]

Originally Posted by Coheed

So, if the response and lag isn't an issue... what would be holding one back from considering this kit?

Have you seen the price tag?

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by Coheed

So, if the response and lag isn't an issue... what would be holding one back from considering this kit?

Price (don't know it)

Availability to be stolen in about 5 minutes with a wrench

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Coheed

So, if the response and lag isn't an issue... what would be holding one back from considering this kit?

price

easy to steal

just a really, really stupid design given the ability to actually put a turbo where a turbo goes on these cars

i could think of a lot more but really... no need. it's just an all-around bad idea. you know how they say 'when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail'? the system is designed that way for no good reason other than that is what they sell. to me that's pretty dumb. just my .02 though.

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by Ludacrits

Have you seen the price tag?

The price is going to be around ~5500 for a turnkey ready install. It comes with a ball bearing oil-less comp turbo capable of around 500hp (GT30r equiv). There are basic setups that are capable of the 260whp on 5psi if you opt out of the intercooler. The basic kit is about $4500 iirc. It doesn't seem like they have really locked down on pricing, so it may be open to negotiation to some degree if purchased directly through them.

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Price (don't know it)

Availability to be stolen in about 5 minutes with a wrench

See above comment on price. I do think that this turbo kit is more prone to theft given how it is located outside the engine bay. But let's be honest here, if you have something that someone wants, they're going to take it. Whether it be your turbo, or your exhaust, wheels etc. Stealing wheels would take a lot less time and lucrative for a thief. I do understand the concern here, but I highly doubt anyone could pull the entire kit off in 10 minutes. Maybe if you lifted the car up with a jack you could possibly get to all the bolts... but it's not a 10 minute job.

Originally Posted by jamesm

price

easy to steal

just a really, really stupid design given the ability to actually put a turbo where a turbo goes on these cars

i could think of a lot more but really... no need. it's just an all-around bad idea. you know how they say 'when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail'? the system is designed that way for no good reason other than that is what they sell. to me that's pretty dumb. just my .02 though.

Price is right in range where other turbo offerings are at for turnkey kits. Plus, you don't have to upgrade the exhaust. CARB legality should give more incentive.

As far as the design of the kit, there is no other kit out there that will do what this does. This retains factory cats... all of them. No CEL or emissions compliance issues. It retains factory fans with factory cooling and no added heat in the engine bay. It leaves plenty of room for an oil cooler setup. It saves weight over all the other kit options including the SC kits (just guessing though). It keeps the weight in the back for better weight distribution, keeps the turbo mounted low for better CoG. There are caveats to every kit out there. Pros and Cons.

The Comp turbo they are using here retails for around $2000. That is likely the big factor in pricing of this kit. Comp doesn't have a huge name out there in the performance aftermarket, and the oil-less turbos haven't been proven to a large degree, but they come backed with the same warranty you get with Garrett or Precision.

There's really no question to whether the kit makes power... but the main concern is the kit's trackability or lag. There are a ton of STS guys here in Utah and none of them are complaining about lag.

I don't agree that putting a turbo up front is the best option. My favorite kit designs out there like the old AP kit, or the PTuning kit have turbos located under the car. Where I live, emissions is a pretty big deal. There aren't many options out there that comply with state I/M. If the kit works and makes power without feeling like dog shit, then it would be a great option. By all means, if I drive it and it feels like shit I'll let you guys know. But there are a lot of guys that are really excited for this.

[Kiske]

I suppose one could easily fab up a rear underbody panel/diffuser to help hide the turbo and detour potential theft.

The sound makes me smile, I'd have to hear it during normal driving to be sure it was tolerable. For me I won't consider this solely as I'll let some one else go first. 50k mile turbo maintenance isn't really bad. I figure with FI on this car I'd be lucky to get 10k with out maintenance anyways no matter what kit was used.

[Reaper]

I just put my frs into an embankment backwards after spinning out in a corner top of third gear. Hit hard enough to bend my trd exhaust tips away from eachother and cracked my reverse light and a snapped a lower mounting bracket. NO OTHER DAMAGE. That probably would have destroyed this system and sucked dirt/snow/turbo shrapnel into the engine. I dont really like the idea of my intake pipe running the entire length of my car. Its one thing to scrape my exhaust on speed bumps, its another to scrape your INTAKE.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by Reaper

I just put my frs into an embankment backwards after spinning out in a corner top of third gear. Hit hard enough to bend my trd exhaust tips away from eachother and cracked my reverse light and a snapped a lower mounting bracket. NO OTHER DAMAGE. That probably would have destroyed this system and sucked dirt/snow/turbo shrapnel into the engine. I dont really like the idea of my intake pipe running the entire length of my car. Its one thing to scrape my exhaust on speed bumps, its another to scrape your INTAKE.

You also could have spun out and smashed the front end instead; Destroying a traditional turbo setup as well.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

You also could have spun out and smashed the front end instead; Destroying a traditional turbo setup as well.

I'm more confident in my crash beam, radiator support, and bumper cover than a low slung unprotected turbo and some thin wall pipe.

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by Reaper

I just put my frs into an embankment backwards after spinning out in a corner top of third gear. Hit hard enough to bend my trd exhaust tips away from eachother and cracked my reverse light and a snapped a lower mounting bracket. NO OTHER DAMAGE. That probably would have destroyed this system and sucked dirt/snow/turbo shrapnel into the engine. I dont really like the idea of my intake pipe running the entire length of my car. Its one thing to scrape my exhaust on speed bumps, its another to scrape your INTAKE.

You will smash your exhaust way before your turbo or intake pipe would hit. Seriously.

[Ludacrits]

From what I've read a traditional turbo setup has more parts involved hence the 3-4k price range. This has less parts and costs more. Overall it would make less power than the kits that cost lower. Not to mention I feel like that company is shady as hell anyway. Everytime I asked them questions about their setup they responded with vague answers. I think the kit is a huge gimmick with an even bigger price tag.

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by Ludacrits

From what I've read a traditional turbo setup has more parts involved hence the 3-4k price range. This has less parts and costs more. Overall it would make less power than the kits that cost lower. Not to mention I feel like that company is shady as hell anyway. Everytime I asked them questions about their setup they responded with vague answers. I think the kit is a huge gimmick with an even bigger price tag.

I suppose I can understand this from the hardware perspective. It really doesn't seem like there is a lot to the kit. Certainly no manifold to build, less lines to run, no fueling upgrades... But then again a tuned Vortech kit would cost the same amount and it doesn't have a lot of hardware either. But in each instance, the biggest cost is the turbo/compressor. I suppose you could go with a journal-bearing turbo or something cheaper than the Comp unit. But it would add complexity to the setup with oil lines and a return pump.

It should make power like the other kits, but will be tuned for safe limits for 91 pump fuel. But the biggest factor here for most people is the emissions legality of the other turbo kit offerings. None of them will pass a legit state/im. Most of these will require trickery to get the CEL from coming on. That just won't fly around here.

As far as the vague answers, not sure what to tell you there. I'm not sure what questions you asked. But STS has been in business for a long long time. The Comp oil-less turbos have made me think twice about the kit, seeing that the complexity of the kit has been reduced. But as I said earlier, the cost is offset by the fact that you don't have to upgrade your exhaust, so it could save you that money in the long run. That's around $700-$1000 there.

If we broke down the kit, we'd be looking at:
$2000 turbo
$500 piping
$400 intercooler
$1000 tuning solution
$100 clamps and couplers
$300 wastegate
$250 blowoff valve
$100 HPC coating
$200 misc parts like hose, zip ties, fittings, air filter etc.

Take these estimates with a grain of salt, but it seems right in line with what I've come to expect from local shops that do custom work. It may not completely justify the price, but it gives some idea of the costs involve. $5500 is too much perhaps? $5000 for the intercooled kit is better, of course. I'd love to see some cheaper prices here.