How/Why did you chose the BRZ/FR-S/GT-86 over the GT-86/BRZ/FR-s?

[DCStorm]

Really surprised Toyota wasn't even mentioned in those videos.

[corry29]

Depending on where you are located:
This car is mechanically a Subaru, but spiritually and by heart its a Toyota.

If you're in the US then:
This car is mechanically a Subaru, but spiritually and by heart its a Toyota, but because of all fail things and sins in life, it came out as a god-damned Scion.

No matter how you guys argue, in the end, its equally a Toyota than it is to a Subaru and vice versa, no one gets more credit more than the other in the end.

This BRZ/FRS/86 is a car coming from a history and bloodline of cars known as an AE86 along with other cars from Toyota's history. So this car has history. Whereas the BRZ just came out of nowhere as an after thought of Toyota's final product. Deal with it. Subaru is known for all they're AWD vehicles, which really makes the BRZ out of place in their family of cars which is why it makes the BRZ not as Subaru as people argue it to be.

But in the end, this car is also very Subaru because almost every component is Subaru and without Subaru, this car would probably have never existed. (Unless Toyota decided to develop it's own boxer-engine and boost up the price) So because almost every single component and internal organ is straight up Subaru. It's not really a Toyota as people argue it to be.

I believe there are plenty of videos online about the BRZ and the FRS/86 alone by Subaru and Toyota. The Subaru video doesn't mention Toyota at all, whereas the Toyota videos doesn't mention Subaru at all except it says boxer engine.

Villy only posted Subaru videos, but maybe the Toyota videos should be posted too to see how much of a Toyota it really is then.



To be honest, it's ridiculous, we don't want to start a war between the BRZ and the FRS/86. Let's just all get along now kids, we all FAM!

Let's get back to what the thread is mainly asking. Why did you choose this over that.

I chose the FR-S because of it's history to Toyota's past sports cars.

and

because Tofu car

[The_Societan]

Thanks for this post... I have been driving my FR-S for 6 months now and I keep getting this nagging feeling... it doesn't FEEL like a Toyota... I have driven Toyotas, and I love them... but this car just doesn't feel the same. Now, don't get me wrong... I LOVE driving my FR-S... but it's not a true Toyota. It's a mutt. A beautiful hybrid of Subaru parts(and yes I have noticed the SUBARU stamp all over the car) and Toyota design... but still a mutt...with Scion emblems stuck on it. And they've done an awesome job. As for rebadging, I have something else in mind.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Villy

But money talks (bosses too) and eventually the overall direction of the project made sense so they spearheaded it (thx goodness they did, I wonder what Toyota would have done on their own - Scion Tc-S?).

They would have tried to hook up with Mazda and funded rotary development, it's in a previous article (I think in this very thread) that they wanted a Boxer or a Wankel to power this sports car. Alternatively they could have approached Porsche but I doubt VW would take kindly to that.

The fact is that Subaru never would have built this car, or anything like it, without Toyota's prodding. Toyoda would have put something out one way or another with or without Subaru.

Edit: Kind of reminds me of 'Chrysler built by Maserati' but you know... good. Auto companies have been sharing and dealing with each other for decades, it's nothing new and nothing worth getting your panties in a bunch.

[WorldRallyBlueBRZ]

I got my BRZ because at the time there were no FR-S' available and i needed a car since my last car died.

[BlueDubbinTDI]

Never had a rwd, came in auto, wanted a project car, can't afford a Porsche, it's a looker.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by Villy

FRSupra, this is a Subaru car - Subaru platform with Subaru engine, built in Subaru's plant. Toyota wanted to have a car like that in their lineup but they lost the know-how for building cars like those long ago, so they had to pay someone else to do it for them. And who else but Subaru. Not only Subaru has the know-how, but building a car with such performance without a boxer engine becomes a tall order. Or at the least not financially viable for the target price range. Yes, Toyota contributed with styling design and other things, but nothing truly major.

When Akio Toyoda took at Toyota's top seat, he was to transform Toyota's image into that of a maker of exciting products, and excitement only comes form sport cars. A priority of his was to build a car like the old AE86 which Toyota can no longer do/know how. So Toyota didn't have the means to build such a car, and building effectively and efficiently, and they decided to employ Subaru which has long established itself as one of the top makers of sporty compacts, and which as it happens Toyota partly own due to their share in Fuji Heavy Industries, and that is Subaru's parent company.

Here a couple of short documentaries I suggest you watch when time allows for it:

Subaru btw had a good reason to be originally hesitant about the development, as they already have sport car in the mid-20K segment. But money talks (bosses too) and eventually the overall direction of the project made sense so they spearheaded it (thx goodness they did, I wonder what Toyota would have done on their own - Scion Tc-S?).

I don't write this to instigate a long exchange; it is just how things are.

Regards!

Did not have the means?

Do you know what the Lexus LFA is?

Which Toyota built before the 86 project, using the facility that housed their Formula 1 R&D.

I'm sorry but you are wrong about that. Like I said above they did not currently have a boxer engine, which is what Tada wanted to use as one of his aspects for a "pure" sports car. So instead of building their own, they used one from a company they own part of Subaru, to save money and time.

[Villy]

Whatever FRSupra, makes you feel better. As I said, no intention to engage in war of words here. The only reason I replied is because your opinions seem quite forceful. And that's fine with me too.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[wlwarfield]

I bought a Lightning Red BRZ because we already had a Lightning Red STi. Gotta stick true to my Subaru roots!

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by FRSupra

Did not have the means?

Do you know what the Lexus LFA is?

Which Toyota built before the 86 project, using the facility that housed their Formula 1 R&D.

I'm sorry but you are wrong about that. Like I said above they did not currently have a boxer engine, which is what Tada wanted to use as one of his aspects for a "pure" sports car. So instead of building their own, they used one from a company they own part of Subaru, to save money and time.

The means to build a limited run, 6-figure halo car are quite different than the means to build an inexpensive, fun sports car. For example, Ferrari and Lamborghini can do the former quite well, but not the latter. In other words, your example is irrelevant.

[trekkie]

Because my Scion dealer is my former Toyota dealer who has a great group of guys in the service department and the Suburu place only has one dealer in the region and is about 40m in traffic away.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by chrisl

The means to build a limited run, 6-figure halo car are quite different than the means to build an inexpensive, fun sports car. For example, Ferrari and Lamborghini can do the former quite well, but not the latter. In other words, your example is irrelevant.

toyota does have the means to do both though. im not so sure there are things that subaru can do that toyota cant. it is a joint venture because it made sense financially. car companies in their entirety have little to do with cars. there were a team of people that created this car. those people were employed both by toyota and subaru. you can look at where and what its made of but you dont credit the construction worker for the building or the company that made the canvas/paint for the painting. im not saying the car couldnt happen independently, just that it didnt.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by fatoni

toyota does have the means to do both though. im not so sure there are things that subaru can do that toyota cant. it is a joint venture because it made sense financially. car companies in their entirety have little to do with cars. there were a team of people that created this car. those people were employed both by toyota and subaru. you can look at where and what its made of but you dont credit the construction worker for the building or the company that made the canvas/paint for the painting. im not saying the car couldnt happen independently, just that it didnt.

Absolutely - I wasn't saying that Toyota couldn't have built a very similar car themselves, just that the example of the LFA really didn't mean anything to the argument.