Which off-the-shelf Supercharger would you like to see CSG test?

[phloozy]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Because the Innovate kit was released half baked at a low price point to sell as many as possible. Mission accomplished. That was their sales model. It's not track-able out of the box and it won't run in all conditions. Specifically on 91 octane in the heat without issues with tip in knock and plenty of timing retard and heat soak. Talked to owners, tuners, seen first hand.

Thats why they are working hard with guys like nameless and other vendors to release add ons like the IAT kits and IC kits. It's become a modular kit. Innovate started the hyperbole, by saying IC is not needed and heat was not an issue but never provided any proof or testing. Despite it being well known they had issues with their own car on 91. These guys are out to sell product for as cheap as possible and give very little back to the community in terms of data and info. But has unbelievable fan boys behind them, I don't get it.

Now that they release an IC months later, you guys still want to support them and not the new players to the market who actually have some track testing and race background instead?

Innovate blew their chance, let Jackson and Kraftwerks get a shot at the press from CSG who will actually test the kit out of the box.

I find it strange that whenever the word Innovate is spoken you magically show up to discuss how terrible the kit is. We heard your opinion like 12 times now (I am sure I missed a few other times). We get it, they arent transparent, it heat soaks on 91 gas, you heard it from tuners and other users, and it isn't track ready. Why do you feel the need to say this EVERY time?

I hate to break it to you but there are a lot of us who are VERY happy with our kits which is why so many people want to see what a reputable shop can do with it. I for one am more than happy to save $1,000 for the option of a non IC solution and running e85.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Because the Innovate kit was released half baked at a low price point to sell as many as possible. Mission accomplished. That was their sales model. It's not track-able out of the box and it won't run in all conditions. Specifically on 91 octane in the heat without issues with tip in knock and plenty of timing retard and heat soak. Talked to owners, tuners, seen first hand.

Thats why they are working hard with guys like nameless and other vendors to release add ons like the IAT kits and IC kits. It's become a modular kit. Innovate started the hyperbole, by saying IC is not needed and heat was not an issue but never provided any proof or testing. Despite it being well known they had issues with their own car on 91. These guys are out to sell product for as cheap as possible and give very little back to the community in terms of data and info. But has unbelievable fan boys behind them, I don't get it.

Now that they release an IC months later, you guys still want to support them and not the new players to the market who actually have some track testing and race background instead?

Innovate blew their chance, let Jackson and Kraftwerks get a shot at the press from CSG who will actually test the kit out of the box.

Ya know, I actually agree with alot of this. They don't communicate well HERE. They did release a product that, IMHO, wasn't ready for public consumption without an intercooler. And they did advertise peak power only slightly higher then what Fenton is seeing with an electrical SC or 2forme made with E85. Who fuckin cares?! I want to see if the claims of the amazing torque curve are real. I want an educated opinion on which setup is faster on track and which is more enjoyable to drive on the street. And I want to hear the horror stories about being stranded because it threw a belt or the kit wasn't as complete as was advertised. I don't give a shit about Innovate or their practises, I'm here reading and interacting where I can, to make an informed buying decision.

Something else to consider, Innovate is just a distributor. A middle man between the actual dealers and the manufacturer. They may have commissioned a tuner or two to make the car work with NA gas, but that's about it.

[calispec]

I would like to point out that jackson racing also has done a PD blower.. for the honda engines. A roots style which we all know is less efficient than a twin screw. Jackson Racing NEVER released an intercooler for that setup. There is one out there that uses laminova cores but my point is I don't believe Jackson Racing ever intended to cool the charge. People were seeing CRAZY high IAT's. Should that kit have ever been released? YES. Would I track it? NO. I own one!! I have the Innovate on my car now. Non intercooled. I installed it late in the season because I do NOT want to track it without an intercooler. I will have all winter to workout any issues (so far none other than tuner choice Delicious is FANTASTIC) and install the intercooler before track season is here again. You WILL see allllll sorts of data from me when that day comes. The stage 1 kit is PERFECTLY FINE for daily driving IMHO. Also if you would like more information try giving innovate a call. They talked to me for a half hour and gave me a lot if information. No numbers but a lot of good info. Bottom like is there is some information that a LOT of people would like to see on this kit. Unbiast. That is why I want to see this kit tested. I LOVE the Innovate kit!! And it is right out of the box. Yes there is room for improvement if you plan on tracking it. I will track it so I am going the extra step and getting the needed parts which INNOVATE PROVIDES BUT IS NOT NEEDED for the average customer.

Also. If you plan on tracking this car without an oil cooler you are crazy. If you track this thing with out an oil cooler after it's supercharged you are insane. Should every company sell an oil cooler with their kit because it is necessary to drive it on a track?????? There isn't a single kit sold that is truly "track ready"!!!!!!

[PoWn3d_0704]

I would love to see the Innovate stage 2 put through its paces... It is what I would go for, since I'm not looking for crazy HP, just enough to put the car where she belongs. (Sub 300 HP)

Seeing what all really has to be done to do it right would really help guys like me who aren't hanging on every word of every member on the forums. I think the Twin Screw is great for all around driving and tracking. So I want to see numbers/cost/headache that goes into making it bulletproof so I can do the same to my car. I want FI, but I dont want a garage queen or dyno bitch either.

[choi0706]

any update on testing?

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by choi0706

any update on testing?

They are about to take delivery of their new car and then it is getting the Jackson Racing supercharger is my understanding.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

I voted Innovate. Looking harder at Jackson right now... looks like you guys are ahead of me on that one.

[jamesm]

if i were looking to pick up a supercharger setup today it'd be kraftwerks no question about it. the toothed, separated belt is the reason. after all the problems i've heard of people having with belts, i would want the insurance of being able to limp home if i throw the sc belt.

but really i'd just buy a turbo, because turbos are better

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Originally Posted by jamesm

but really i'd just buy a turbo, because turbos are better

lol, there's that.

[Victor Draken]

Originally Posted by jamesm

if i were looking to pick up a supercharger setup today it'd be kraftwerks no question about it. the toothed, separated belt is the reason. after all the problems i've heard of people having with belts, i would want the insurance of being able to limp home if i throw the sc belt.

but really i'd just buy a turbo, because turbos are better

power delivery is not the same plus complexity.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Victor Draken

power delivery is not the same plus complexity.

i know.

[Victor Draken]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i know.

Probably I didn't get the irony behind your post about turbo is better

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Victor Draken

Probably I didn't get the irony behind your post about turbo is better

i was poking fun at the topic... because in the other thread we were talking about how all of the s/c guys are switching to turbos now.

[sw20kosh]

just twin charge and have both............... jeez