CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ja1217

Main tracks I will be going to are VIR and Summit Point which are pretty smooth other than curb hopping in places. Definitely no where near as rough as buttonwillow.

Well, I'd recommend you stick to the stock springs, as you won't have any way to change the compression damping...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Superstar

Are the custom valved CSG spec'd SRCs still in development?

Yes. They won't be released until we're happy with them.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by ja1217

What spring rate would you recommend for the Ohlins on a more track oriented car that will be running stickier tires (Hoosier R6)?

As I said I really like Ohlins R&T....but if you're running Hoosiers you might want to think about some other options. MIGHT.

I do prefer very little crosstalk (meaning I don't want a change in compression) with a 1 way adjuster but you have to accept the limitations. If you're looking for the high spring rates needed for those tires, then a 2 way might be a better option then a custom sprung 1 way.

That said our Ohlins were Awesome with a capital A with custom I think 8k rates. Absolutely did not need a revalve and did not leave us wanting a 2nd adjuster. We were running sticky street tires. With the firmer rates needed for hoosiers....maybe we would have desired a 2 way.

Here's what it comes down to...

Would ohlins with custom 8k (or thereabouts) rates be awesome and dramatically improve handling and lower laptimes? Yes absolutely and the difference would be huge over stock. HUGE. Great ride quality too.

Would a good 2 way with firmer spring rates be slightly faster? Yes. Lots of other things to think about with that too.

Summit is our home track BTW...check out our YouTube for some video of our car with our T2s on the track. We've run ohlins and our 2 way Tarmac 2s there. Myles has a ton of experience at that track and VIR but out of the country right now. I'm just at the bar typing on my spacephone, so maybe call next week when he's back for a chat.

- Andy

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

As I said I really like Ohlins R&T....but if you're running Hoosiers you might want to think about some other options. MIGHT.

I do prefer very little crosstalk (meaning I don't want a change in compression) with a 1 way adjuster but you have to accept the limitations. If you're looking for the high spring rates needed for those tires, then a 2 way might be a better option then a custom sprung 1 way.

That said our Ohlins were Awesome with a capital A with custom I think 8k rates. Absolutely did not need a revalve and did not leave us wanting a 2nd adjuster. We were running sticky street tires. With the firmer rates needed for hoosiers....maybe we would have desired a 2 way.

Here's what it comes down to...

Would ohlins with custom 8k (or thereabouts) rates be awesome and dramatically improve handling and lower laptimes? Yes absolutely and the difference would be huge over stock. HUGE. Great ride quality too.

Would a good 2 way with firmer spring rates be slightly faster? Yes. Lots of other things to think about with that too.

Summit is our home track BTW...check out our YouTube for some video of our car with our T2s on the track. We've run ohlins and our 2 way Tarmac 2s there. Myles has a ton of experience at that track and VIR but out of the country right now. I'm just at the bar typing on my spacephone, so maybe call next week when he's back for a chat.

- Andy

Good to know. I'll stick with the Ohlins for now, possibly do the 8k swap. There has been talk in NASA about creating a spec 86 class of some sort, which would have some form of standardized suspension, so I will wait till that is decided before considering dropping the Ohlins as I'd prefer to not buy 3 different sets of coilovers. Besides, the Ohlins are just so good on the road and I'll probably continue daily driving my FR-S until I'm ready to do actual wheel to wheel racing. Just looking at diong Time Trials this year.

[cycleboy]

Forgive me if this has been asked before! I'm trying to figure out the right way to go a little lower.

I just got new wheels and tires (17X8.5 +38 w/ 245/40-17) http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58507

I love the look, except the height. I love the handling and feel of the car, so I want to keep it fairly similar.

My plan is to drop it on RCE Yellows, close the gap and keep a fairly stock feel to it. It'll be mostly a DD, maybe a trackday or auto-x a few times a year (I hope).

I had the alignment done when the wheels and tires went on and these are the specs:

Ft left: -0.1 Camber, 5.4 Caster, -0.03 Toe
Ft right: -0.3 Camber, 5.3 Caster, -0.05 Toe

Rr left: -1.1 Camber, 0.09 Toe
Rr right: -1.5 Camber, 0.06 Toe

If I drop the car on Yellows I understand that I will gain some camber, particularly in the rear. I think I also learned toe will be affected slightly?

So my question is, in order to keep the alignment in the right specs for tire wear, street driving, and occasional track/auto-x, do I need to add to this plan camber bolts, LCAs, or anything like that? (I'm hoping not as modifying sure becomes a money suck!) Or, can I just put on the springs and either leave as is or have it adjusted again and all's well?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by cycleboy

Forgive me if this has been asked before! I'm trying to figure out the right way to go a little lower.

I just got new wheels and tires (17X8.5 +38 w/ 245/40-17) http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58507

I love the look, except the height. I love the handling and feel of the car, so I want to keep it fairly similar.

My plan is to drop it on RCE Yellows, close the gap and keep a fairly stock feel to it. It'll be mostly a DD, maybe a trackday or auto-x a few times a year (I hope).

I had the alignment done when the wheels and tires went on and these are the specs:

Ft left: -0.1 Camber, 5.4 Caster, -0.03 Toe
Ft right: -0.3 Camber, 5.3 Caster, -0.05 Toe

Rr left: -1.1 Camber, 0.09 Toe
Rr right: -1.5 Camber, 0.06 Toe

If I drop the car on Yellows I understand that I will gain some camber, particularly in the rear. I think I also learned toe will be affected slightly?

So my question is, in order to keep the alignment in the right specs for tire wear, street driving, and occasional track/auto-x, do I need to add to this plan camber bolts, LCAs, or anything like that? (I'm hoping not as modifying sure becomes a money suck!) Or, can I just put on the springs and either leave as is or have it adjusted again and all's well?

Toe will be slightly affected front and rear. You'll want an alignment after installing the springs.

You don't necessarily need to add anything to the springs. However....

For the front, the "OEM" camber bolts are like 10 bucks and make a huge difference. I think every car should have them and they should have come with them from the factory. It lets you get a little more camber up front and even it out. You'd be happier with close to -1 degrees or a little more for DD. Very noticeable difference in handling. Everyone just really should do this, even without adding springs.

For the rear, you have 3 options. LCAs, rear whiteline camber bushings, and nothing.

LCAs are more expensive but easy to install and adjust.

The rear camber bushings are cheaper but a pain to install and a bigger pain to adjust. They do also add a slight performance benefit in that it's a firmer bushing.

Doing nothing is actually not a bad option as you'll end up approximately where you need to be with our mild drop RCE Yellows. Any more drop and you'd probably want to do something.

I'm anal and like things to be "perfect" and equal side-to-side, so I'd probably do something. But that doesn't mean you need to.

- Andy

[Luis_GT]

Need some coilover suggestions.

I'm looking for a subtle drop of 1.1 to 1.6", but I want a ride that feels as plush as OEM, at this point, I may never hit the track, or if I do start, it might be once every two or 3 months.

I do go to the drag strip since it's cheap.

I already tried the GC coilover kit, but it just bottomed out the shocks with 5/8" drop on 440lb springs.

[fooddude]

How much are your Tarmac Grey springs btw? (I only see the Yellows posted on shop websites).

I'll prolly be ending up getting either the Tarmacs or S-Techs: I love the firmness rate specs of the Tarmacs for performance and occasional track use; but I also really love the stance and how the S-Tech springs sit, with the ever so slight rake (probably the nicest stance of any lowering spring I've seen so far..from the pics I've seen)..just wish the s-techs were firmer. Only thing I don't like about the Tarmacs is that it doesn't lower much and from the pics I've seen it almost looks stock height (I think there's only 1 user that posted pics of the Tarmacs, so I could be wrong).

So I guess it's a decision of either a nice stance, or a nice firm rate for performance.

Anyone have pics of their cars on the Tarmac greys? ...or maybe even the RCE yellows (since I do believe the Yellows and Greys lower the same, correct?)

[Lee358]

alright so here is my problem. I bought 17x9 +45 RPF1s they rub on the inside edge of the wheel. So my idea is to buy coil overs to push them out a little and also be able to add a little negative camber. I will be going to at least one track event this summer and maybe a autox here and there. I have been looking at the KW v3s but I'm not sure i need something that crazy and adjustable but i do want something i can DD and Track.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by fooddude

How much are your Tarmac Grey springs btw? (I only see the Yellows posted on shop websites).

I'll prolly be ending up getting either the Tarmacs or S-Techs: I love the firmness rate specs of the Tarmacs for performance and occasional track use; but I also really love the stance and how the S-Tech springs sit, with the ever so slight rake (probably the nicest stance of any lowering spring I've seen so far..from the pics I've seen)..just wish the s-techs were firmer. Only thing I don't like about the Tarmacs is that it doesn't lower much and from the pics I've seen it almost looks stock height (I think there's only 1 user that posted pics of the Tarmacs, so I could be wrong).

So I guess it's a decision of either a nice stance, or a nice firm rate for performance.

Anyone have pics of their cars on the Tarmac greys? ...or maybe even the RCE yellows (since I do believe the Yellows and Greys lower the same, correct?)

RCE Tarmacs are on our site for 319.

Here's a review thread with some before/after pics:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ght=rce+tarmac

Tons of pics of yellows around. From our Facebook:



Tein S-techs are suuuuuper soft up front. I would not bother with them. They're a "style" spring by their own admission. Soft rate + bigger drop = riding the bumpstops.

- Andy

[DrDuquette]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The lesser drop should be just fine, IMO. You may need to get a LCA for the rear to get the proper camber for maximum cornering grip, but that may or may not be ideal for a dual duty car.

I'd try to drive it around town for a day or two; usually driving 50 miles will get all settling out of the system.

You should be okay without messing with preload. If there's no play, you'll be fine.

The damper settings are analogous between the front and rear. Based on my personal preference, given the default spring rates offered on the Ohlins R&T, I'd probably end up with slightly more damping in the rear to induce rotation via loss of grip. This would be better addressed with a rear sway and possibly tire pressures as well.

My biggest issue is that it is single adjustable. If it were double adjustable, then it would:

- Offer more flexibility with spring rates
- Offer more fine-tuneability for maximum comfort AND performance
- It's really friggin expensive for a single (although the JRZ RS1 is even more!)

What about sway bar links. Should that be adjustable in this situation you are taking about. A moderate 1-1.5" drop.

Thanks

[Cjymiller]

I've been stuck on trying to decide what coilover I want based on spring rates and I realized this may be the wrong way to make a selection, hence my question below.

Which part of a coilover system affects ride quality the most? Would you say, spring rate, damper valving, or something else?

[fooddude]

@RCE: nice ..not low low ..but still a nice drop keeping it classy and incog.

Man ...them Tarmac Greys + Bilstein B8s would be so perfect! ...I think I made my final decision (especially from the not so good reviews/experiences of the GC sleeve kits)

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Cjymiller

I've been stuck on trying to decide what coilover I want based on spring rates and I realized this may be the wrong way to make a selection, hence my question below.

Which part of a coilover system affects ride quality the most? Would you say, spring rate, damper valving, or something else?

I'd say damper valving and compression/bump travel are the top two things that affect ride quality. Spring rate is important but not as important as those two. I will say that a firm spring rate requires excellent valving in order to have a good ride, whereas lower spring rates and only adequate valving will still be okay.

Intended application is important when picking a coilover. There are "street" coilovers, hardcore track coilovers, and some that are a mix of both...road & track Ohlins for example.

Most good coilovers, regardless of how they started, can be revalved or custom sprung to suit any application. But that may just be a waste of money and you'd be better off starting with something else.

Spring rates usually are an indicator of a coilovers intended application, but not always. Most good ones are customizable anyway.

- Andy