CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by cueball89

Any recommendations on a camber gauge for DIY alignments?

https://www.smartracingproducts.com/smartcamber

^ That's what we use along with their Smartstrings. There are other very good set ups but this is kind of one of the industry standards.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

Hey @CSG Mike @Racecomp Engineering,
Do any of you guys know what the upper knuckle hole in the RS-R rear lower control arm do? Is it used to correct roll center like the Whiteline roll center correction kit does with the front LCA, assuming you adjust coilover height to keep the same ride height?

I need to think about this some more. You're not changing the outer mounting point on the knuckle, so I think this would just raise or lower the car. That of course does change roll center but for a given ride height I think the roll center would still be the same. Maybe I need to diagram that out.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

Hey @CSG Mike @Racecomp Engineering,
Do any of you guys know what the upper knuckle hole in the RS-R rear lower control arm do? Is it used to correct roll center like the Whiteline roll center correction kit does with the front LCA, assuming you adjust coilover height to keep the same ride height?

In Japan a few years back, I had a chance to climb under this car.


Which looks like this in the back.

See the inner mounting point on the chassis is raised, which is different than changing the mounting point on the arm. I think.

- Andrew

[Plumbus]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I need to think about this some more. You're not changing the outer mounting point on the knuckle, so I think this would just raise or lower the car. That of course does change roll center but for a given ride height I think the roll center would still be the same. Maybe I need to diagram that out.

- Andrew

I made a diagram to try to understand your explanation. Is this what you meant? If this is true, I don't understand how (or if) the whiteline roll center kit would work since the knuckle mounting point is not changing with that kit either. This is so confusing.

[Racecomp Engineering]

If you just change the outer mounting point on the arm, you're not changing the actual chassis to knuckle angle. Whereas if you change the chassis mounting points...you are changing the angle from inner to outer mounting point. The shape of the arm doesn't really matter (other than raising or lowering the car).





In my garbage diagrams above, I did not change the blue line connecting inner and outer mounting points.

- andrew

[Plumbus]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

If you just change the outer mounting point on the arm, you're not changing the actual chassis to knuckle angle. Whereas if you change the chassis mounting points...you are changing the angle from inner to outer mounting point. The shape of the arm doesn't really matter (other than raising or lowering the car).

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50743239988_649853f0c8_c.jpg[img]

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50743240058_dc6831c908_c.jpg[img]

In my garbage diagrams above, I did not change the blue line connecting inner and outer mounting points.

- andrew

I see! So the whiteline roll center kit (front) does work because the taller/longer ball joint technically becomes part of the chassis.

I wonder then, is there anything to fix the roll center height in the rear of the car, and is it really necessary?

[cueball89]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

I see! So the whiteline roll center kit (front) does work because the taller/longer ball joint technically becomes part of the chassis.

I wonder then, is there anything to fix the roll center height in the rear of the car, and is it really necessary?

Moto IQ used whiteline rear camber bushings to raise the rear roll center of the car. Is it necessary?

https://motoiq.com/project-fr-s-more...d-whiteline/5/

[jkamelo]

Hey guys, thanks so much for doing this thread.

I daily drive a bone stock FRS. I plan to do a HPDE class in 2021 but I don’t anticipate hitting the track more than 4 times a year. So this car is primarily a grocery-getter being driven on highways and suburban roads of varying quality.

All I want to do is lower the car an inch while preserving or improving upon the stock handling characteristics/ride comfort. I’ve ruled out lowering springs, so the Flex Z is my current front runner thanks to its low price.

Problem is, my friends shouted at me when I brought up the Flex Z. They swear by the Fortune Auto 500s because it’s rebuildable and has better customer service + a better warranty. Also something something “digressive piston technology.”

I don’t understand what I’d be spending the extra money for. I’m not a cheapskate - if the FA’s are worth it, I’ll pay. But considering my use case, what would y’all recommend I do? Pull the trigger on the Flex Z’s (or some BC BR’s), or splurge on the FA 500s? In other words - what would I be missing by taking the cheaper route?

Also, if it matters - I’m currently on stock TRD 17’s with Bridgestone Turanza EL400 225/45 all-seasons. I plan to upgrade to 18x8.5s and a better tire (Nitto Neo Gen?) around the same time I buy my coilovers.

Thanks in advance lads.

[churchx]

Not sure you need to do much for RC adjustment with reasonable lowering (eg. your mentioned within 1"). Imho just do more performance driving/track oriented alignment, and it should do.
Also all-seasons certainly will be bad choice for track use, too easy to overheat. Better at least something of "PSS class" ultra high performance summer tires. Not familiar with mentioned Nittos though to comment on those.
Regarding track prep also think of higher temp brake pads & fluid.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

I see! So the whiteline roll center kit (front) does work because the taller/longer ball joint technically becomes part of the chassis.

I wonder then, is there anything to fix the roll center height in the rear of the car, and is it really necessary?

See cueball's post. The only off the shelf parts I can think of that alter rear roll center are the whiteline bushings and some of the complete rear uprights.

Necessary? Not really for a 1 inch or so drop. If you're going really low for a functional reason then I would think about it.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

4 track days a year is actually pretty decent!

Both us (Racecomp Engineering) and CSG have our own mid-range options developed specifically for this platform, by BRZ specialists with a ton of experience. Check out our RCE SS1 coilovers (made by KW) and the CSG Flex A (made by Tein). CSG is basically a competitor to us but I have a lot of respect for what they do.

Coilovers can be complicated. But what's most important is the quality of the valving of the shock itself. And that's unfortunately the most difficult part to judge.

The short version on digressive valving: digressive valving is good when it's done right. It means that the shock is designed to "blow off" on bigger bumps and still react quickly to driver inputs (body roll and transitions). But...I very frequently see it not done right, which can mean that the adjuster isn't very useful and/or the overall valving just isn't right (usually too stiff even with the blow off). Digressive valving does not automatically mean something is good. If you want to get nerdy, check out the tech articles link in our signature...I'll be adding a more detailed article about this topic in the next few weeks.

Our RCE SS1 are also digressive and we focused on a usable range of adjustment that works really well. What we see a lot of is that when digressive coilovers are set to soft, they're basically linear and soft (which is fine for comfort), but when turned up for handling they're digressive but astronomically unusably stiff (even on track).

Shocks are one of the places where it makes a lot of sense to focus on quality because it's something you "feel" every second your driving the car.

- Andrew

Originally Posted by jkamelo

Hey guys, thanks so much for doing this thread.

I daily drive a bone stock FRS. I plan to do a HPDE class in 2021 but I don’t anticipate hitting the track more than 4 times a year. So this car is primarily a grocery-getter being driven on highways and suburban roads of varying quality.

All I want to do is lower the car an inch while preserving or improving upon the stock handling characteristics/ride comfort. I’ve ruled out lowering springs, so the Flex Z is my current front runner thanks to its low price.

Problem is, my friends shouted at me when I brought up the Flex Z. They swear by the Fortune Auto 500s because it’s rebuildable and has better customer service + a better warranty. Also something something “digressive piston technology.”

I don’t understand what I’d be spending the extra money for. I’m not a cheapskate - if the FA’s are worth it, I’ll pay. But considering my use case, what would y’all recommend I do? Pull the trigger on the Flex Z’s (or some BC BR’s), or splurge on the FA 500s? In other words - what would I be missing by taking the cheaper route?

Also, if it matters - I’m currently on stock TRD 17’s with Bridgestone Turanza EL400 225/45 all-seasons. I plan to upgrade to 18x8.5s and a better tire (Nitto Neo Gen?) around the same time I buy my coilovers.

Thanks in advance lads.

[Drifter X]

I’m so torn on the SS1 vs the B6s lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by jkamelo

I daily drive a bone stock FRS. I plan to do a HPDE class in 2021 but I don’t anticipate hitting the track more than 4 times a year. So this car is primarily a grocery-getter being driven on highways and suburban roads of varying quality.

All I want to do is lower the car an inch while preserving or improving upon the stock handling characteristics/ride comfort. I’ve ruled out lowering springs, so the Flex Z is my current front runner thanks to its low price.

Why rule out lowering springs? RCE Yellows or Tarmacs, Swift Sport or Spec-R, with Bilsteins is a great setup IMO! Loving mine on street and at the track. Honestly, though damping is not adjustable I think they have a better combination of high/low and rebound/compression than my Ohlins Road & Track coilovers on my FD RX-7. REally...

For coilovers, I'd go with CSG or RCE recommendations, but for your usage lowering springs + Bilsteins is IMO a solid option.

Also, if it matters - I’m currently on stock TRD 17’s with Bridgestone Turanza EL400 225/45 all-seasons. I plan to upgrade to 18x8.5s and a better tire (Nitto Neo Gen?) around the same time I buy my coilovers..

You can do better than Neo Gen I'm sure. Do you need all-seasons? Tire choice is super important, check out tire tests and reviews at Tire Rack.com to figure out what's gonna work best for you. For track, it'd be good if you stick with either the Extreme Performance or Maximum Performance Summer tire categories.

[HaXx]

"hi, yes,

i bought $7,000 coilovers and i was passed by a brz with $700 Tein. whats wrong with my coils?"