[GTA Autoslalom] PITL Series Event #7 - Sunday September 8, 2013 (Brampton, ON)

[engsr]

I wrote this several posts back:

Originally Posted by engsr

As for your time, you have to compare yourself to someone in the same or relatively similar car, preferably driven by an experienced/seasoned driver. Each course will be different, so you have to look at your times and how far off you are. When I first started, there were competitors that I would base my times after, and as the years went on, I would get closer and closer to eventually equaling and then beating them. It's to the point now in the last few years, I've become the hunted instead of the hunter, and not by just other FWD guys, lol.

If you've never done this before, then I don't think you can realistically expect to be anywhere as fast as the top guys in your class, regardless of what car you have. I've seen it where some guys come out with some relatively well set up cars but they get killed by the Izuzu. These guys never come back for some reason lol. But as long as you're willing to learn and have fun, your times will drop and you will become a faster driver. Seat time is key as well as having fun too.

Looking at your run times however, you did drop 5 seconds from your first run to your last (~6 if you don't look at the cone in your last run). The other way to look at it is that you never went off course either (7 people never had a clean run) and you're not DFL, so you're doing something right.

If you come out next season, don't hesitate to ask for coaching from the experienced guys - most will be more than willing to ride along with you or take you as a passenger.

[that_guy]

^Exactly. I ran my first season back in 2005 and never had stellar results. You have to remember, just because you have a drivers licence doesn't mean your a performance driver. Practice makes perfect.

You'll get to top of class and top overall by getting seat time. The people that got there did so by going to every event they could. Staying at home wont make you a faster/better driver.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by engsr

I wrote this several posts back:



If you've never done this before, then I don't think you can realistically expect to be anywhere as fast as the top guys in your class, regardless of what car you have. I've seen it where some guys come out with some relatively well set up cars but they get killed by the Izuzu. These guys never come back for some reason lol. But as long as you're willing to learn and have fun, your times will drop and you will become a faster driver. Seat time is key as well as having fun too.

Looking at your run times however, you did drop 5 seconds from your first run to your last (~6 if you don't look at the cone in your last run). The other way to look at it is that you never went off course either (7 people never had a clean run) and you're not DFL, so you're doing something right.

If you come out next season, don't hesitate to ask for coaching from the experienced guys - most will be more than willing to ride along with you or take you as a passenger.

I've done autocross way back when I had an 87 MR2. Then I dropped it for almost 5 years after I moved on in life to other things.

Mike's Isuzu is hilarious. I respect the man but at the same time, I don't want to go too crazy on my Vitz since it does take me to work, job sites, etc. He's lost an exhaust (cheating lol!) mid run and that's not what I need. I've thought about slapping on some good tires and then see but I know if I do that, it's a slippery slope.

A few of the seasoned vets sat in my car for kicks (I've been showing up for the last 4 events) and they like my lines but I think... no, I KNOW I'm too tentative on my braking. Then again, I am slow overall so it SHOULD be easier taking a good line.

This is why I need a second car lol.

EDIT: In the last event of the season, I am nipping at Mike's Isuzu time. A couple of secs back! Pics below:

[engsr]

You drive the lighter blue Echo, yes?

Although I'm not aware of what your accumulative seat time is, the only real way to tell how much you need to improve is to get someone else to drive your car. The delta will tell you exactly how much you need to improve, and obviously the bigger the delta, the further you have to go.

And believe me, a lot of us know about the slippery slope. I've been down it several times, lol.

[Frost]

I've thought about that - but I think somehow they would wind up damaging something. I dunno, that's the issue with putting my DD into the mix.

Once I get my fun car, I will definitely consider that option for sure.

Yes, I drive the electric blue Echo hatch.

[automatic]

Originally Posted by Frost

I've thought about that - but I think somehow they would wind up damaging something. I dunno, that's the issue with putting my DD into the mix.

Once I get my fun car, I will definitely consider that option for sure.

Yes, I drive the electric blue Echo hatch.

I'll volunteer to help you find a comparable time in your echo!!

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Frost

I've done autocross way back when I had an 87 MR2. Then I dropped it for almost 5 years after I moved on in life to other things.

Mike's Isuzu is hilarious. I respect the man but at the same time, I don't want to go too crazy on my Vitz since it does take me to work, job sites, etc. He's lost an exhaust (cheating lol!) mid run and that's not what I need. I've thought about slapping on some good tires and then see but I know if I do that, it's a slippery slope.

A few of the seasoned vets sat in my car for kicks (I've been showing up for the last 4 events) and they like my lines but I think... no, I KNOW I'm too tentative on my braking. Then again, I am slow overall so it SHOULD be easier taking a good line.

This is why I need a second car lol.

EDIT: In the last event of the season, I am nipping at Mike's Isuzu time. A couple of secs back! Pics below:

honestly you can't ocmpare that rustbucket finally falling apart with your echo, lol

an econobox does not mean accident prone, autocross is supposed to be about DD cars, at least that's what pitl is.

so come out in whatever and kill people... err cones

[Frost]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

honestly you can't ocmpare that rustbucket finally falling apart with your echo, lol

an econobox does not mean accident prone, autocross is supposed to be about DD cars, at least that's what pitl is.

so come out in whatever and kill people... err cones

It's not so much an accident, it's more like someone clutch dumping, losing a wheel (unlikely since I'm not the crazy man who put spacers on his VW and left only 2 threads of engagement with his wheel), etc. I know autoX is about DDs but I am especially sensitive since I travel with that car pretty car for work potentially.

Originally Posted by automatic

I'll volunteer to help you find a comparable time in your echo!!

Only if you let me drive yours. I'll pay the entry fee to drive your car

[engsr]

Originally Posted by Frost

It's not so much an accident, it's more like someone clutch dumping, losing a wheel (unlikely since I'm not the crazy man who put spacers on his VW and left only 2 threads of engagement with his wheel), etc. I know autoX is about DDs but I am especially sensitive since I travel with that car pretty car for work potentially.

Don't take this the wrong way, but this is clearly the sign that you are not driving hard enough. If you're that paranoid about pushing your car (regardless if it's your daily or not) then your driving ability will not improve. Also, if your car is in good mechanical shape (which it should always be), then you really don't have to worry about breaking anything because for the most part, you won't. The reason why things break on cars is because of poor maintenance (Mike's muffler) or poor judgement (that VW's wheel studs). And there is a difference between driving a car hard and abusing it. If anything, I see more people abusing their cars during my daily commute than at an autoslalom or track day.

I get your worry about the daily thing, don't get me wrong. This is why I won't use my BRZ at the track (I do plan to autoslalom it next year though) and why I have a track car. Also, I'm not willing to write off my BRZ and potentially kill myself in the process, whereas in my track car I'm less likely to kill myself while writing it off.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by engsr

Don't take this the wrong way, but this is clearly the sign that you are not driving hard enough. If you're that paranoid about pushing your car (regardless if it's your daily or not) then your driving ability will not improve. Also, if your car is in good mechanical shape (which it should always be), then you really don't have to worry about breaking anything because for the most part, you won't. The reason why things break on cars is because of poor maintenance (Mike's muffler) or poor judgement (that VW's wheel studs). And there is a difference between driving a car hard and abusing it. If anything, I see more people abusing their cars during my daily commute than at an autoslalom or track day.

I get your worry about the daily thing, don't get me wrong. This is why I won't use my BRZ at the track (I do plan to autoslalom it next year though) and why I have a track car. Also, I'm not willing to write off my BRZ and potentially kill myself in the process, whereas in my track car I'm less likely to kill myself while writing it off.

None taken. I know I am holding back what the car can probably do but I just wish there was someone else that I know is good to show up with a similar car to see what I can aspire to. Me comparing myself to a BRZ, MX5 or S2k is just not realistic. My car is in good shape that's why I bother to show up and run but not go too hard.

A guy showed up in a Toyota Tercel and I was ecstatic. He sat in with me but was not very verbal on what he thought. He was about 1.5 seconds slower than me but his shocks seemed to be non-existent.

Clutch dumping on my car is silly. All I do is rev it to 2200 RPM and go... o wait, that IS a clutch dump just at low RPM. Derp!

I'm saving up for a second fun car that I don't mind gutting and tracking. I've been lurking on these forums for almost 3 years for that very reason. It's either this or a S2k or a next gen MX5. There could be others in the mix but those are the top three. I also used to run a 1999 Corolla in my very first autocross. That one I did abuse because I know I was selling it to a mechanic. I just need a platform to build my skillset upon. Then the practice comes... until then I am leisurely just racking up times to improve upon.

Do you go hard on your first run? I usually make sure I stay on course and then start shaving time off. My best runs usually appear just after the halfway mark (3rd or 4th depending on how many runs we squeeze in).

The PITL group does well for what they work with - I've been attending since 2000 as a participant and longer as an audience member.

EDIT: You going to participate next season? I am planning to sign up for the series and be a staple again.

EDIT x2: Would you ever let me drive your car

[mabviper]

Hey Frost,

I went to PITL 7 and 8. I was the blue BRZ that's usually a few cars in front of you (low teens). From what I heard, the guy that showed up in a Tercel at 8th event was actually a stock car driver so you can try and compare your times w/ his. Although his car seemed to be in bad condition, experience counts for something right? ^^.

I'm in the same situation as you. My BRZ is my DD, winter or otherwise. Although I like the thought of buying grippier tires, I'll be autocrossing w/ these stock ones. They are less forgiving with respect to driver errors so they'll force me to adjust my driving patterns. Ultimately, my goal was to shave my own time every run. If I beat a guy w/ stickier tires, even better ^^.

[engsr]

Frost - I've been participating at PITTL since 2004 and I've been to every event since mid 2010. I'm sure we would recognize each other but I have a hard time remembering who people are at times (I do remember cars, however ). I'm sure if you look at the results you can figure out who I am.

I have slalomed my BRZ a few times last year but I never got around this year because of the class battle I was in. I was fairly close to being overall at some of the events but I kept making mistakes here and there and it cost me a chance at winning CMOD. I did learn a lot this year and I think I may be max'ing the potential of my car that I'm considering changes for next season. But my focus for next year may shift to other things, so I can't make a decision right now.

It's funny you mention the co-drive but I'm actually working with another person to maybe do co-drives at some event next year, since this guy may have a different car too. Plus, I know that he's an awesome RWD driver so I will need someone to learn from.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by mabviper

Hey Frost,

I went to PITL 7 and 8. I was the blue BRZ that's usually a few cars in front of you (low teens). From what I heard, the guy that showed up in a Tercel at 8th event was actually a stock car driver so you can try and compare your times w/ his. Although his car seemed to be in bad condition, experience counts for something right? ^^.

I actually wanted to get into rally racing before I got into autocross but somewhere along the line I got lost and wound up in autocross / track. I like my softer suspensions but loose traction

I spoke to the guy in the Tercel and he seemed to be knowledgeable and there were rumours that he was a great driver but he never said much and didn't offer much to me. Maybe he was just trying to see what I was doing? Other than that, the most helpful guy in my car that day was Trevor who runs the blue NC MX5. He said my lines were good but braking was meh (which I knew but glad to know he confirms). He was a fun guy but always had someone in his car so I didn't get a chance to sit in and learn.

I'm always worried about destroying my pads but on my old MR2 I would kill them without an after thought.

As for both of you - mabviper and engsr, all you BR/S drivers look alike lol!

So many of you - I remember the odd ball car drivers well though. Ken who showed up in his '68 Lotus is a cool guy and Alan with his K-Pax tuned Volvo C30 is a great guy. There's also the guy with the Fiero (I can't recall his name) - he and I tend to exchange notes and I usually help him figure out the track. We tended to stick together if we show up early. Got to know Ginger and her Porsche Cayman but didn't get a chance to talk to her husband (Ian?). He laughed (in a nice way) when he saw me drive and said "Haven't driven one of those in like... what, 20 years?"



I can't wait for next season. Too bad HADA stopped doing autocross events.

Oh, I also have a cheapo car cam if anyone wants to get vids of their events.

Here is a video: [ame]http://youtu.be/y0uZJpGeEtg[/ame]