Am I the only one that thinks those waiting for 2015....

[snoflewis]

Originally Posted by thill

I think your perspective of the way Subaru has marked these cars up is somewhat unique to your area. In most states, they are not being marked up, and many of us were able to buy well below MSRP.

I think you have to put into perspective how many of these cars we are talking about. Between Subaru and Scion we are talking less than 30K total FR-S and BRZ's being sold in the US this year. IF they make 10% of the cars a higher output model, that is only 3K cars per year. If you take a BRZ Limited now, for instance, and add FI, tires, wheels, additional suspension, etc. You are well into the $33-35K+ range.

Could a $30K+ Scion be a tough sale? Maybe, but again, to get a lighweight RWD new sports coupe with this kind of handling, that would make close to 300hp you are talking Porsche Cayman and those are almost double the price of a $30K Scion... There is not much else... Unless you go used...

The case could be made right now that there are higher horsepower RWD coupes and FWD hot hatches out there that have more amenenties, more HP, etc, than the FRZ, yet many of us are not looking for a heavy GT style sports car (some of us even came from one of these for this car). Or a FWD hot hatch. We bought the FRZ for a reason. Adding some more power but keeping all the characteristics of the car (low COG, handling, driver feel, cockpit, etc) is just icing on the cake. Maybe I am in the minority for saying I would be willing to pay $34K+ for a BRZ or $30-31K for an FRS that gave me that extra 10% I am looking for. I don't think so though....

i definitely agree with you on the low production numbers, which is why i think its even less likely that it will receive any sort of significant power boost or even a higher performing model at this point. i can see it happening. but i dont think it will. and with subaru producing a much smaller number of BRZs than FRS it seems a lot less likely

and yeah, california in general has crazy markups on the BRZ. that leaves us resorting to CO. im sure it's different elsewhere, but STIs alone, you dont see too much of in LA.

[zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by thill

A 328 or C250 is just a different car than a 250-300hp twin. It is not a lightweight sports car.

If you are looking for more of a luxury sedan, then the BRZ/FR-S should not even be on your list.

Just pointing out that they're in the price vacinity.

[Frost]

Guys, don't forget that this website and forum were built on the foundations of a rumour so when people say "I don't get it why ... xxx ... based on a rumour", don't forget that this forum was born on the whisper of a sporty car being launched by Toyota / Subaru.

On that note - you can wait forever for something "presumably" better but it may not be better. Power does not equal fun and vice versa.

I am just chipping away and saving a little day by day to see when I can grab one for myself and finally stop racing a Vitz on autocross days but the humour is always there when someone driving a nicer car gets beat by me (rare but it happened).

Frost

[StickThatClutch]

I don't think what's essentially a 15 second car will suddenly become a high 13 second car in base guise. So let's say you do get some sort of HP bump, what are you really going to be looking at something that can pull a mid/low 14 second 1/4 mile?

You're still in V6 Camry territory. Enjoy the current car for what it is, not what it might be in the future.

Drive safe.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by SubieNubie

I have hard time believing that this car will change very much as it progresses over it life cycle. My reasoning behind it is, I think price is paramount to this car. Added anything power wise makes it more expensive to make and to insure.This also was an expensive car to create, it has it own platform and it shares very little component with its stable mates compared to its siblings. Lastly if you look at such niche cars from other manufacturers, I doubt if you'll get much more than new head and tails lights and a light tune to ECU for a couple hp/tq. I bought mine because I wanted to enjoy it now. To me it has plenty of power. Its about as fast as my Civic Si was, its more fun to drive than my Civic Si and just a easy on my wallet as the Civic Si.

The car wasn't as expensive to make as you think. The platform is borrowed from a $17,500 AWD Impreza without the added AWD components. The engine is also very similar to the Subaru FB20 with the Toyota D/I system added. Suspension and braking hardware is also borrowed.

[Chee-Hu]

For those that are still waiting for an upgrade, why not just wait 20+ years from now. I'm sure they'll have turbo by then making 600+ hp stock! By waiting, you will also be saving a ton of money instead of spending more on parts.

I think it's useless to wait. Just my .02

[2013GTRNate]

I will be happy with my 2014. If I were returning to the States earlier I would have purchased a 2013. There is always going to be something better out there but finding that happy median is more economical.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

What is this? Tantric driving? If you want it and can afford it, buy it. Why spend 2+ years not having that thing you want in "hopes" that it becomes something else? All that says to me is that if you're waiting you either A) Can't afford it right now anyway or B) just don't want the car as it currently exists.

That's basically my situation. The engine and transmission issues with the car right now scare me and the torque dip/lack of power disappoints me. If they fixed all the issues with the engine and transmission and add more power for MY2015, then it would be worth the wait. Plus, in a year from now, I should be able to put a lot more money down on it, making it easier to afford.

[SubieNubie]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The car wasn't as expensive to make as you think. The platform is borrowed from a $17,500 AWD Impreza without the added AWD components. The engine is also very similar to the Subaru FB20 with the Toyota D/I system added. Suspension and braking hardware is also borrowed.

It's a little more than just a two door impreza with the AWD removed and a tweaked engine.

[jkonquer]

Horrible marketing strategy for Tada's part, I'm sure he had some words with the toyota after that. I believe gt86/brz opened a pandora's box for all manufactures, I'm more excited to see what next the generation Z, honda, and miata would be like as we already have many forced induction gt86/brz' out in the market doing very well at the track.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by jkonquer

I believe gt86/brz opened a pandora's box for all manufactures, I'm more excited to see what next the generation Z, honda, and miata would be like as we already have many forced induction gt86/brz' out in the market doing very well at the track.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45353

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44580




You're damned right they've opened up a pandora's box for the industry. Both the next gen Z35 and Mustang are talking about dropping 400lbs. Things are getting very interesting for 2015. This auto show season should be awesome (LA, Tokyo, then Detroit) expecting to see a WRX production model, Z35 concept, Mustang concept, with possibly a RX-7 and veiled Supra concept thrown in for good measure.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

The engine and transmission issues with the car right now scare me and the torque dip/lack of power disappoints me. If they fixed all the issues with the engine and transmission and add more power for MY2015, then it would be worth the wait.

My position is similar to yours. I'm buying for the long term, so a wait of a year is no burden.

People who shout "buy now!" need to be aware that everyone's situation is different. If you plan to keep your BRZ as a low-annual-miles car for 10+ years then buying something you are going to be disappointed in just to get it a year or 18 months earlier than a version you are going to be content with for a decade or longer is a losing proposition.

A second factor also comes into play: what are you driving now? If you absolutely have to get a new car right away then maybe you should pull the trigger despite the current model's limitations because nothing out there is going to get any closer to being a perfect match for you. But in my case I am driving a 30k mileage car that weighs 200 lbs less than the BRZ and pulls just about as well in most speed ranges, similar size and driving position, better visibility. It certainly does not handle at the limit as well, and rides a little more harshly, but trading up is not worth it until they get the BRZ where I want it. I am sure there are many others making similar assessments.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by SubieNubie

It's a little more than just a two door impreza with the AWD removed and a tweaked engine.

Oh I know. I just thought you was saying the car from the ground up is a entirely new car that shared nothing with any other car.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

My position is similar to yours. I'm buying for the long term, so a wait of a year is no burden.

People who shout "buy now!" need to be aware that everyone's situation is different. If you plan to keep your BRZ as a low-annual-miles car for 10+ years then buying something you are going to be disappointed in just to get it a year or 18 months earlier than a version you are going to be content with for a decade or longer is a losing proposition.

A second factor also comes into play: what are you driving now? If you absolutely have to get a new car right away then maybe you should pull the trigger despite the current model's limitations because nothing out there is going to get any closer to being a perfect match for you. But in my case I am driving a 30k mileage car that weighs 200 lbs less than the BRZ and pulls just about as well in most speed ranges, similar size and driving position, better visibility. It certainly does not handle at the limit as well, and rides a little more harshly, but trading up is not worth it until they get the BRZ where I want it. I am sure there are many others making similar assessments.

I feel you guys 100%. My G35 is a fine daily driver with robust torque and I don't really encounter corners that push it 10/10ths. In my case I would rather wait as I am in no hurry to dump my G35. Initially I hated my G35 mainly because of its weight but I also hated my RSX because of its 2.0L torqueless wonder of a engine.