Toyota 86 to get power boost with 2015 refresh

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by regal

Just drop Subaru's FA20T in this chassis, DI and turbos are a match made in heaven.

And don't give us the throttle response b.s. a turbo has to be better than the GD torque dip.

[thill]

Originally Posted by regal

Tada is young and not God's gift to Japanese auto industry. For him to be talking about a KERs in this car by 2015 is almost childish high hoping, are sales even enough to invest the capital for a bigger block ? Why is he making these "promises" that Toyota knows he can't keep ? Give him enough rope and maybe he'll hang himself so we can hurry up and close the books on Scion?

Subaru already has an FA20 Turbo in production, being sold today in their Japan Legacy.

Once Subaru gets out from under the DS-4 DI contract, they could easily sell the BRZ with their FA20T for no price increase and watch Tada & his Scion brand go the way of GM's Saturn.

Tada needs to get over his dislike of turbo's, small displacement turbo engines are the future in this segment of the market. People aren't going to pay $40k USD for a Kers FR-S and overseas they're not going to pay emission's tax for a 2.5L.

Just drop Subaru's FA20T in this chassis, DI and turbos are a match made in heaven.

And don't give us the throttle response b.s. a turbo has to be better than the GD torque dip.

From the article"
"I hope to make an engine upgrade at least one time with this car," Tada told Drive.
"We [have] already tried all possibilities and there are several types of 86 prototypes at the Toyota proving ground now; one is a turbocharger, one is bigger displacement and [the other is a] special hybrid system."

It is quite possible that the turbo version is what folks will see. Tada never stated that they would go with a larger displacement engine, the author of the article implicated that this was the direction they may go in.

No need to get your panties in a wad.

I think Tada knows what he is doing.... But hey, your the expert, why don't you build a better car with aftermarket parts that suits your needs better?

[nonicname]

if it's not FI they won't get any power out of that 2.0 engine.
The damn car needs torque! not HP.

I think they need to offer 2 versions; a turbo and an NA to make everybody happy. NA people can have the slow one and the others the Fun one.

[supra2nv]

Originally Posted by nonicname

if it's not FI they won't get any power out of that 2.0 engine.
The damn car needs torque! not HP.

I think they need to offer 2 versions; a turbo and an NA to make everybody happy. NA people can have the slow one and the others the Fun one.

I plan on my na to be the fun one lol

[Phantobe]

Which ever route they go I'm curious if they are going to have different level trims with different amounts of power and different price gaps.

If they go with FI they can have the 2.0 NA and 2.0 FI.

If they go 2.5L they can have the 2.5L and the 2.0L.

No idea about this hybrid system...

From a customer standpoint I would say that the 2.0L FI would be most appealing. That way owners prior to the 2015 launch have the option to go FI, instead of having to trade in and buy a new car. If you can't afford the FA20 FI then you can settle for the FA20 and later down the road make it FI.

I would think adding FI would be a lot easier than having to swap engines, if you desired more power. Or hell even trading your car in...

All this talk about a power increase makes a customer that doesn't already own the car very skeptical if they should purchase or wait. Which will have a negative impact on 2014 sales...

So from a business standpoint I think it makes sense to go FI, that way owners that crave more power have it available if they so desire and it clears the air for prospect buyers and can confidently make a safe purchase.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

All this talk about a power increase makes a customer that doesn't already own the car very skeptical if they should purchase or wait. Which will have a negative impact on 2014 sales...

.

That's why it is very odd that Tada's statements about 2015 were made public , especially right before Toyota axes half their Scion dealerships. I can't make sense of it.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

Which ever route they go I'm curious if they are going to have different level trims with different amounts of power and different price gaps.

If they go with FI they can have the 2.0 NA and 2.0 FI.

If they go 2.5L they can have the 2.5L and the 2.0L.

No idea about this hybrid system...

From a customer standpoint I would say that the 2.0L FI would be most appealing. That way owners prior to the 2015 launch have the option to go FI, instead of having to trade in and buy a new car. If you can't afford the FA20 FI then you can settle for the FA20 and later down the road make it FI.

I would think adding FI would be a lot easier than having to swap engines, if you desired more power. Or hell even trading your car in...

All this talk about a power increase makes a customer that doesn't already own the car very skeptical if they should purchase or wait. Which will have a negative impact on 2014 sales...

So from a business standpoint I think it makes sense to go FI, that way owners that crave more power have it available if they so desire and it clears the air for prospect buyers and can confidently make a safe purchase.

It's a good question. I think we will see two models. One with the current engine and specs as the base, and one with a more powerful engine. The one with the more powerful engine will, most likely, be well over $30K and will have other enhancements as well such as suspension, tires, brakes, etc. That would allow Toyota and Subaru to still sell a car in the $25-28K range which will still suit the majority of buyers, and also cater to the enthusiasts who crave more power and have no problem dropping the extra cash to get it.

I think if Toyota and Subaru release the twins in just one model with either a larger engine or turbo only option it would result in the car being out of reach for many buyers.

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by thill

It's a good question. I think we will see two models. One with the current engine and specs as the base, and one with a more powerful engine. The one with the more powerful engine will, most likely, be well over $30K and will have other enhancements as well such as suspension, tires, brakes, etc. That would allow Toyota and Subaru to still sell a car in the $25-28K range which will still suit the majority of buyers, and also cater to the enthusiasts who crave more power and have no problem dropping the extra cash to get it.

I think if Toyota and Subaru release the twins in just one model with either a larger engine or turbo only option it would result in the car being out of reach for many buyers.

Pretty understandable...

I'm no expert on Forced Induction but if the stock internals can hold up against a low boost turbo charger I can't imagine why they wouldn't go with FI. The car already handles amazingly, all the mods you listed would just already improve the cars magnificent handling.

If the twins are going to have more power with all these other mods, I'd imagine it will be around the range of a STi. So it doesn't really solve the power problem for those that don't want to spend 35k on a car.

At least if there is a TRD Turbocharger kit and already own the car you can comfortably make that purchase and that if you so choose can upgrade suspension, brakes, etc...

For the people that want more power, which seems to be fairly substantial on this forum it doesn't make sense to make a 2.5L "Performance" model, I guess it will be interesting to see if they just completely bail on the FA20 and have...

2.5L Model & 2.5L "Performance" Package Model, which is an option I didn't consider...Ooh skepticism...

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by nonicname

if it's not FI they won't get any power out of that 2.0 engine.
The damn car needs torque! not HP.

I think they need to offer 2 versions; a turbo and an NA to make everybody happy. NA people can have the slow one and the others the Fun one.

Why do you say that? It's been proven repeatedly that letting the engine breath more and giving it a better tune unlocks 20-30 more horsepower. I know the OEMs have to keep emission standards in mind but I still think they could modify the engine's peripherals and easily unlock another 20-30hp.

A two tiered system is a good idea. Of course I have no doubt they'd price an STI (or whatever they'd call it) model too high and remove even more value from the car. I can't stand it when manufacturers offer faster versions of a car but also make us accept a boat load of accessories and add-ons that further bloat the car's weight and price

[guysmyley]

i really hope he means the 2015 model, which would be released in mid-2014
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take my money!

Originally Posted by Mim

Japanese brand looking at every option to give 86 more grunt.




The Japanese brand has teased numerous concepts of its two-door cult car with upgraded engines, including a supercharged TRD version built in the United States and a twin-charged (supercharged and turbo charged) version created by its in-house skunkworks Gazoo Racing.

But it has always maintained those were designed to showcase the ability for aftermarket tuners and were not suitable for mainstream production.

Now, the chief engineer of the 86, Tetsuya Tada, has finally admitted his team is developing a number of ways to increase performance of the showroom version; one of which will definitely make it to production when the 86receives its mid-life upgrade in 2015.

"I hope to make an engine upgrade at least one time with this car," Tada told Drive.
"We [have] already tried all possibilities and there are several types of 86 prototypes at the Toyota proving ground now; one is a turbocharger, one is bigger displacement and [the other is a] special hybrid system."

"All possibilities are being considered."

Tada would not divulge any further details, but inside sources claim the most likely option is an increase in displacement, bumping the 2.0-litre horizontally opposed engine out to 2.5-litres and increasing power from 147kW to around 190kW.

It is understood this option would be the most cost-effective solution that not only maintains the integrity of the lightweight concept but prevents placing the additional stress on the drivetrain that a turbo charger would or the complexity and weight penalty of a hybrid system.

However, both alternatives are not being tested in vain, as they are likely to be introduced on the next-generation 86.

Tada confirmed to Drive he is already developing the concept for a successor, and hinted that it could be a radically different car, potentially dropping the boxer engine altogether - which raises questions about Subaru's involvement and whether there will be follow-up to the sister BRZ.

Toyota has confirmed it is developing its first turbo charged four cylinder engine in almost 20 years, which is likely to debut in Lexus' compact SUV - dubbed NX - that will be revealed in concept form at the Tokyo motor show in November, which Tada admitted was an option.

"The boxer [engine] has benefit for low centre of gravity, but [we will develop the] concept for the next generation car first and then we will look at best possible options to fit," he said.
"We will see then, but this could be..."

Either way, it is almost certain the hybrid system Toyota is currently working on will make its way into the next-generation 86. However, it is unlikely to be a conventional, and heavy, battery pack but rather a road-going development of the super capacitor system employed in its Le Mans sportscar racers, which are not only smaller and lighter but can store and deliver energy quicker for rapid bursts of acceleration.

Source - http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/t...809-2rleu.html


Well folks as with everything "news" related take it with a grain of salt till confirmed, but maybe, just maybe most of our prayers may be soon answered. :happy0180:

[ZDan]

A 2.5 n/a wouldn't necessarily be more expensive or heavier than the FA20.

A turbo would necessarily be significantly more expensive and somewhat heavier.

I'd prefer the 2.5 n/a route, and as a replacement for the 2.0 rather than an optional model. That would avoid increased cost associated with having two different engines for a somewhat limited-production car.

[Steve201brz]

Originally Posted by nonicname

if it's not FI they won't get any power out of that 2.0 engine.
The damn car needs torque! not HP.

I think they need to offer 2 versions; a turbo and an NA to make everybody happy. NA people can have the slow one and the others the Fun one.

the fun version solely depends on who's driving it

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by ZDan

A 2.5 n/a wouldn't necessarily be more expensive or heavier than the FA20.

A turbo would necessarily be significantly more expensive and somewhat heavier.

I'd prefer the 2.5 n/a route, and as a replacement for the 2.0 rather than an optional model. That would avoid increased cost associated with having two different engines for a somewhat limited-production car.

Or keep the 2.0 for all the suckers living in countries with draconian vehicle laws and give us freedom lovers the 2.5.

[thill]

Has Subaru released a 2.5 N/A that outputs 250hp+ and 250+ft lbs of torque? I was not aware of one that did not have FI as well.

I have been down the turbo route multiple times and do prefer NA, but I would be surprised if they moved away from the 2.0/FA20 engine.