Direct Injector Seal Installation | Video and Issues

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by jdcorbitt3

I wonder what this platform would be like with a 13B in it. I have been holding off on doing track events, but I think I will start doing them, and if this engine lets go, I will try the 13B.

Oh yeah, I'm sure it will drop right in. About an hour of work.

[jdcorbitt3]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

Oh yeah, I'm sure it will drop right in. About an hour of work.

Boxer engines and rotaries are more predisposed to a swap due to crankshaft placement being similar in location. The big difference is the width of a rotary.

I just came back from a spirited drive. 7000 rpm shifts in 2nd and 3rd gears, plus keeping it in 2nd and lifting at 6500 and getting right back on it. I heard no popping. My car is a march build. Maybe, there is some truth to the January 13 updated flash mentioned in another thread.

John

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by M1K3

The Transient Ignition Retard function is designed to introduce ignition retard during transient conditions. Transient conditions are identified by a fast change in Throttle Position (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP). So yes you do not need to be shifting to induce knock in these type of conditions.



No

Have you been able to logged transient retard in action?

From my logs, it looks like T.R. is applied as the throttle is lifted at the beginning of the shift as the load drops and timing ramps up. I have not logged on / off throttle in the same gear like you would do when feathering or taking a corner, which is why I am asking.

There is a second retard, clutch down timing retard that seems to work during shifting. You will see a momentary retard when the clutch pedal travels up far enough to activate the clutch switch when the pedal is almost all the way back to is highest position. I think this is there to help the clutch grab since it happens after load has already come back up most of the time.

[M1K3]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Have you been able to logged transient retard in action?

No, I have not. It's on my to do list, just have not gotten around to do it or actually forgot to do it last time I was data logging.

I'm guessing this second retard table is different from this one:

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by M1K3

No, I have not. It's on my to do list, just have not gotten around to do it or actually forgot to do it last time I was data logging.

I'm guessing this second retard table is different from this one:

Yup, its a 2D table load is the axis degrees retard is the data iirc. I don't have my laptop but in brzedit it is called "clutch down timing retard" I think. You see the timing dip right after the clutch switch goes from open to closed on the up stroke of the pedal.

[Optimus Prime]

I apologize in advance for adding nothing to this thread. I am admittedly not a gearhead. I know enough to try to diagnose what the general issue might be, but would never try to do any serious work myself. My question is this. I've read most of the DI failure threads just to try to keep informed. I frequently see mention of it relating to when/how fast you shift. Soooo....is this something that is limited to sticks? Or is it something that can happen to autos as well?

Like I said, I'm sure I added nothing, but at this point am so confused if this is something I need to pay attention for. Thanks and I hope I don't get flamed too much for the slightly off topic question!

[MightyMeeple]

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime

I apologize in advance for adding nothing to this thread. I am admittedly not a gearhead. I know enough to try to diagnose what the general issue might be, but would never try to do any serious work myself. My question is this. I've read most of the DI failure threads just to try to keep informed. I frequently see mention of it relating to when/how fast you shift. Soooo....is this something that is limited to sticks? Or is it something that can happen to autos as well?

Like I said, I'm sure I added nothing, but at this point am so confused if this is something I need to pay attention for. Thanks and I hope I don't get flamed too much for the slightly off topic question!

Actually, I think that's a damn fine question. I've read about every thread on this forum about this issue as well, and I've never seen anyone document DI issues with an auto tranny. Anyone else know differently?

[wallace03]

Originally Posted by MightyMeeple

Actually, I think that's a damn fine question. I've read about every thread on this forum about this issue as well, and I've never seen anyone document DI issues with an auto tranny. Anyone else know differently?

Someone else can chime in, but perhaps it is because people with autos don't stay in gear til it hits that rpm range as often as people with M/T? Just a thought. This problem is common, so it will be even less likely to see someone with A/T to have it?

[ft86me]

does this alleviate the popping noise that initiates in start up and occasional driving? kind of like a loud pop or knock?

[ft_sjo]

Autos have much slower transients and are unlikely to have this issue.

[JackSmiley]

I tried checking the injectors via the driver's side area and cant seem to see a number.

[KKaWing]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Yup, its a 2D table load is the axis degrees retard is the data iirc. I don't have my laptop but in brzedit it is called "clutch down timing retard" I think. You see the timing dip right after the clutch switch goes from open to closed on the up stroke of the pedal.

I wonder if one of the clutch switch is disabled (the engaged in gear one only so you can still start the car) would it have a "fallback map" where the timing retard exists through the entire rev range since it can't detect it? Or am I totally delusional and with the switch disabled the timing retard will be totally gone? Just a random thought.

Edit: munched on this idea a bit and now I think it's a bad idea. Inspiration came from the Veloster forums. They disabled the "top" switch to get better throttle response after shifting. Disabling the switch would make it feel normal rather than "mushy". It also made the exhaust burble and pop slightly. Now I realize both engines can't be more different, but... Yeah, nothing to see here, just my clueless mad scientist side at work...

[ft_sjo]

@KKaWing Don't fall into the trap of confusing static with transients. A lot of folk on here are doing that.

The issue is not dangerous det during static conditions.

It's transient det when the engine isn't under load, when "tip-in" the throttle, either when changing gear or just rapidly changing from off to on throttle at certain engine speeds.

It happens in more scenarios than is documented by the South Africa TSB, though. I personally don't see it as an issue, but when I get time I will probably try and tune it out myself.

[regal]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

It happens in more scenarios than is documented by the South Africa TSB, though. I personally don't see it as an issue, but when I get time I will probably try and tune it out myself.

You say you don't think its an issue, not to be an A$$ but how much experience do any of us really have with Direct Injection? Add to that there are a handful of pro Subaru tuners that really know how to tune out the slight flaws in the factory tunes, and they are busy with WRX/STI's..

I think its prudent that the community develops a tune that can handle tip in on/off throttle above the 5200 rpm.

I think that has been the disconnect all along. There are a lot of people who do WOT pulls and a little autocross without the issue, its when you finally decide to drive the car like a sports car in its power band that leads to the trouble.

The fact that you are finally considering tuning out the problem is a good thing and I hope this community supports this direction. Much better attitude than leaving it up to the OEM's who have restrictions and red tape, grass roots efforts are where its at