FRS vs. MR-S (MR2 Spyder)

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Rampage

There are boosted 1ZZ Mr2 Spyders making 500HP and MWR built a boosted 2ZZ making 700HP. Just sayin.

Davids Rock's STR MR2 Spyder usually only gets beaten by a few s2000. He has a 1ZZ which comes stock with 140HP and the Hondas come stock with 240HP. Seems the Spyder is pretty well balanced for autox.

The Spyders have been holding their own in CS against the FR-S and BRZ also. There just are not very many of them being campaigned.

The Spirit MR-S 2ZZ beat all comers in the Touge series for years.

Canadians do not like the MR-S because they could not buy them in their country.

You guys have a good night!

We didn't want them however, they have been eligable for import since 2009.

Here's how I'd take my MR-S if I were to ever own one.

Toyota platform using a Honda motor and beating them at their own game. Lovin' it!

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by hmong337

That video convinced me I'd like a K-swapped MR-S back in the day but research showed it's more trouble/got more potential problems than it's worth to make it 50 states legal like a 2ZZ MR-S. Also the build will not be as OEM quality. I don't recall ever seeing it dominate the Spirit MR-S.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

That video convinced me I'd like a K-swapped MR-S back in the day but research showed it's more trouble/got more potential problems than it's worth to make it 50 states legal like a 2ZZ MR-S. Also the build will not be as OEM quality. I don't recall ever seeing it dominate the Spirit MR-S.

The k series motor is simply better and has infinitely more support compared to the 2zz. Initial costs for the swap would be high compared to the 2zz but you're also starting with a way better motor.

I know these are lotus' but you get the idea...

[hmong337]

The k20a Nutec Mr-s is faster than the techno spirit...

Check the lap times...

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by hmong337

comes only with a corolla motor.

You lost me with this, typical sw20 owner. No wonder the harping of LS engines in miatas, total lack of idea of what balance means.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by hmong337

The k20a Nutec Mr-s is faster than the techno spirit...

Check the lap times...

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer the sound of a K20A and the more elegant crossover of VTEC over the mechanical cam lift in VVTL-i. I've known about and praised the Half Way Nutec MR-S years ago...
http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthr...utec-K20A-MR-S

But the K-swap isn't as cost feasible as a 2ZZ swap. There are potentially infinite ways to make the MR-S faster in a straight line for more or less than a K-swap (boosted V6?). This also isn't a drag racing discussion/forum.

So what Half Way Nutec MR-S vs. Techno Spirit MR-S Tsukuba lap times are you talking about? Because all I could find was this...


Even then, they're different environmental conditions being on different days with other cars on the track at the same time. So it's a wash. And the OP framed this discussion for the 2ZZ MR-S. Bringing the K-swap into discussion is both moot and unfitting for this thread.

[autobrz]

What people forget when talking about modifications is ease of modification, reliability, ease of maintenance and service of said modified vehicle and most importantly daily driveability and daily comfort features like A/C, cruise control, cabin noise level, etc...

If you throw out all comfort and reliability out the window and just talk about who is faster, why not just buy a go cart or an areo atom.

The 2zz is good because it has oem reliability, close to oem cabin noise level if done right, easier to retain oem a/c, cruise. It's been done enough times that the details have already been worked out. When you're talking a V8 transplant or a K series, it's hard to say what you will need to give up in order to get that performance and how much time you will be spending finishing up the swap and discovering things that weren't done right rather than just enjoying it on the road.

to be fair though, in that k20 race, the mr-s had problems going into some gears. Still, didn't the guy say their first attemp, they completely scrapped the shell because they didn't do it right?

[hmong337]

I never care for the battle results. The time attack results usually tell the tale as you've got an empty track and the clock. The nutec car clocked a 1:02.5xx. Check the time attack results.

I'm just simply stating that the K20a has way more potential and can already be outfitted into the mr-s. Sure it's not quite plug and play like the 2zz and cost more. But the point of the matter is that it's the better motor to go with. That's the ultimate choice for me when modding the mr-s. A bunch of guys have done the 2grfe e153 swap too. But like with most things Toyota, there's no support for that motor either.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by hmong337

I'm just simply stating that the K20a has way more potential and can already be outfitted into the mr-s. Sure it's not quite plug and play like the 2zz and cost more. But the point of the matter is that it's the better motor to go with. That's the ultimate choice for me when modding the mr-s. A bunch of guys have done the 2grfe e153 swap too. But like with most things Toyota, there's no support for that motor either.

The problem with both the K and the 2grfe swaps are the axles and the electronics. In both cases the solutions are technically challenging and very expensive. You are not talking about twice the price but more like three times the price from what I have read. Then you have constant nagging little issues forever. Although the K is a better engine. The K swap does not make a better car. At least not if you look at it in terms of a comfortable, daily driveable, performance oriented, sports car.

Some of the things that do not work right are:
Dash display
Air conditioning
Power steering
OBDII

Despite that, there are several MR2 Spyder owners over on Spyderchat working on both of those swaps.

This topic has drifted far astray of the original 2ZZ Spyder compared to the FR-S topic.

[fatoni]

coincidentally my friend just texted me today letting me know he is selling his swapped spyder. he only wants 5k for the thing and hes been daily driving it for years so i know its at least swapped right. if only i could figure out the whole smog thing i would be all over this.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by fatoni

coincidentally my friend just texted me today letting me know he is selling his swapped spyder. he only wants 5k for the thing and hes been daily driving it for years so i know its at least swapped right. if only i could figure out the whole smog thing i would be all over this.

There have been two of them sold on Spyderchat in the last month or so for that price. Both of them had issues and needed some TLC. If he really wants to sell it then he should post it there.

If he has it up on craigslist or anything send me a link. Hell, I might even buy it for that price. Getting them OBDII compliant so they can pass emissions in most states is easy. Getting it past the STAR gestapo in CA is a bit more of a challenge.

[hmong337]

the 2zzge swapped mr-s to a k20a swapped mr-s is what would be a wrx to an sti. wrx guys are always wishing they had the sti LOL.

anyways, getting back to the op...

an mr-s with a little more oomph would be nice. i always wished it came the 2zzge from factory. why it didn't is stupid! toyota would've stayed competitive with the release of the s2000 if the 2zz was equipped. they were aiming way too low going for the nb miata.

i firmly believe that you're getting more car with the frs/brz. more in terms of practicality and daily driver usage. sure, the power isn't there but that can always be fixed with some forced induction. just like how you'd fix the gutless mr-s with a 2zzge/k20a swap. however, the mr-s fails miserably as an only car. the mr-s would have to be a 3rd or 4th car. it falls way short in hauling your groceries and only being a two-seater.

we all understand that the frs-brz is miserably slow with no power. i'm quite confident in saying that the reason why we all bought the car is for its superior chassis, handling, looks, and platform potential. i know that's why i pulled the trigger on mine.

to be frank, i'd rather have a stock frs/brz than a fast mr-s. practicality reasons lead me to this conclusion along with the frs/brz being in a different league of sexiness. the frs is that hot neighborhood chick that just moved down the street while the mr-s is that goofy looking athletic girl in gym class that can whoop you're ass in a game of basketball. i don't know about your guys but i'll settle for the hottie.

[regal]

Not me I'll take the ass woopin. The new girl is an unknown, a risky proposition.

Lets make this equal.

#1 an FRS with 40k miles stock selling for $16k
#2 an MRS with 40k miles, a 40k mile 2zz, and a hard top for $16k

Considering I basically just drive my FR-S back and forth to work and never use the storage in hindsight I think the main reason I bought the FR-S was convenience. I needed a commuter right away and a warranty sounded nice.

As I've owned the FR-S for a year and had serious engine issues (DI seals) with only 7500 miles I really wish I had waited for a good deal on a 2zz MR-S or taken the time to build one. The spyder is much faster, handles as good or better, and is frankly cheaper to maintain. I am afraid this version of the FA20 will be a 2 or 3 model year ordeal, already Subaru has dropped the DS-4 and has a DITFA20 in japan, I think that says a lot about the future of our engines and possibly even Scion.

When you buy a car you always want a powertrain that is proven and widely used. Its a big reason Scion was a success at first. The 2zz MR- S is proven. Those preferring a KA20 are even more in my camp in that they want a great engine in their car that they know has good parts availability and is built to last with solid widespread history.

Our Twins are a bit like when Porsche first went water-cooled. I am afraid a 2zz MR-S will be on the road many more years than an '86. I mean parts availability for a 12 year old swapped 2zz spyder is better than my 2013 FR-S, it takes over a month to get any DI related part for this car, as frustrating as owning a German car in 1980.

There is hope that the twins cars continue to sell strong and the enthusiast/aftermarket support will help keep these things running. But if I could trade even for a cherry 2zz Spyder today I probably would and never look back.

[Rampage]

I do not know about even up. I might go with the FR-S in that case. That drivetrain warranty would be worth a lot to me. I have driven my son's FR-S and unlike some, I think I would be satisfied with the horsepower it makes. Therefore, I could leave the engine stock and keep the warranty. I would replace the stock springs with RCE yellow like we did on his. Then I would change the tires and wheels and add a good catback. That is where I would try to stop until the car was no longer covered under the warranty.

You could build a really, really nice 2ZZ Spyder for $16K. I only have $13.5K in mine with Hard Top, de-badged, front JDM badge, LPX rear lip, LPX front lip, 2ZZ-GE, PPE intake, LR/DDPR Header,JNZ Cat/Downpipe, TRD exhaust, C-60 6speed, 2000 Celica ECU, Che chassis brace, Dev keyhole covers, 03 side vents, short antenna, TRD Frt strut brace, TRD Rr strut brace, TRD short shift, GT86 shift knob, Celica GTS seats, JIC FLT-TAR coilovers (5k-7K springs), 16x7 38mm Moda Md13 w/ 205/45 R16 Yokohama S-Drives. It has under 70K miles on it now but was at 59K when I bought it. The engine and trans are at 50K and had 43K when I bought them.

You also should be able to get quite a bit more than $16K for a used FR-S. Well, maybe not at 40K miles but the drivetrain warranty would still be good for another 20K.

For me the draw of the 2ZZ Spyder is that you get the same or better performance for half the price. If the prices are the same then the Spyder loses its advantage and you have to factor in that it is not as versatile and has no warranty. It does get better mileage though. I got 38.3 MPG on a recent 471 mile highway trip through the mountains of North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia that averaged 74MPH and had WOT lift runs on every on ramp and toll booth.