Question about A/T using it in Manual mode

[Simpleviet]

Originally Posted by Oburn

Yeah I notice it downshifts on its own but I normally do it myself but is it better on the engine if I let it downshift on its own?

So you keep yours in manual and sports mode? Does the sport do anything with manual mode on or does it just benefit in "D"?

As some stated already. I think it's better to treat it like a manual when to up shift and when to downshift. Sure it rev-matches for you that's the advantage of the automatic in manual.

The engine will only downshift to prevent stalling.

Overall treat it like a manual when it is in manual mode. There were times I downshifted, I meant to upshift. I hear the WOOOOOSSSSSHHH I was like oh damnit hahaha. It was 2nd gear into first gear instead of third gear. I hit 6kish RPM.

[Spartan65]

Originally Posted by sofrsnsokleen

manual mode, isn't true manual control, the "computer" is going to take control if you start to reach a dangerous limit. Sport mode does actually have an effect on the manual mode, its allows you to hold the revs longer than if you just had it in regular mode and manual. PS, you can also leave it in auto mode and take over gear changes with the paddles. it won't be the same dynamic as in manual or sport manual, but it is handy to control shifts. I think i do this literally every day i drive it.

I do have to interject to the accuracy of your statement, If you have it in manual mode and don't shift into the next gear it will not do it for you, and if you miss a shift it will bounce on the rev limiter. And it will not upshift unless you do it yourself.

[FastWhite]

I agree with @Spartan65. When in manual mode the trany ECU (can't remember correct name) will not let you downshift if it will over rev. Otherwise I have complete controll. It WILL beep at you. And it does downshift for you, but only when coming to a stop.
It will let you hit the rev limiter.
I do believe there is a way to defeat the the rev limiter.
My Subaru guy did a push button dance, car not running, with the function buttons on the dash.
And yes I will get more info.
I autocross on a regular basis.
And it does accelerate pathetically.



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[chiefshayan]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

The manual is 0-60 mph 6.2 second, and the automatic is 7.9 seconds, in manual mode it will be the same if not worse. its 1.7 seconds. It has nothing to do with when it shifts the automatic is geared much more for fuel economy than acceleration or top speed. Plus if I remember correctly the automatic adds 200+ lbs of weight to the car, you would need more power (headers exhaust intake tune lightened flywheel etc.) and a bit more grip from better tires to be able to equal or surpass the manual FR-S 0-60 time.

I don't believe it's 200+ pounds because automatic is 2785, and if I remember correctly the manual is in the high 2,600's. The noticeable difference is off the line, I own an automatic frs and no matter what mode you are in, it is slow as hell from 0.. if you're racing make sure you start at 40mph! 7.9 seems a bit high, I went to a strip and got 6.9 stock (removed spare tire and tools about 40lbs drop in weight)! Maybe just depends on what sea level you're at (Higher above sea level will slow the car down drastically if not boosted).

[Symmetrical]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

The manual is 0-60 mph 6.2 second, and the automatic is 7.9 seconds, in manual mode it will be the same if not worse. its 1.7 seconds. It has nothing to do with when it shifts the automatic is geared much more for fuel economy than acceleration or top speed. Plus if I remember correctly the automatic adds 200+ lbs of weight to the car, you would need more power (headers exhaust intake tune lightened flywheel etc.) and a bit more grip from better tires to be able to equal or surpass the manual FR-S 0-60 time.

Having an 6AT myself, the reason the 0-60mph is so slow compared to a manual is really because there is no way in hell to launch this thing from a dig. I'm sure from a rolling start it is more comparable. And no the AUTO is NOT 200lbs heavier, it's only 46lbs. Base curb weight (manual/automatic)2,776 lbs/2,822 lbs

[chiefshayan]

Originally Posted by Symmetrical

Having an 6AT myself, the reason the 0-60mph is so slow compared to a manual is really because there is no way in hell to launch this thing from a dig. I'm sure from a rolling start it is more comparable. And no the AUTO is NOT 200lbs heavier, it's only 46lbs. Base curb weight (manual/automatic)2,776 lbs/2,822 lbs

I knew my numbers were off but thanks for clarifying, I for a second almost went for a trade-in if it was 200lbs more..

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Symmetrical

Having an 6AT myself, the reason the 0-60mph is so slow compared to a manual is really because there is no way in hell to launch this thing from a dig. I'm sure from a rolling start it is more comparable. And no the AUTO is NOT 200lbs heavier, it's only 46lbs. Base curb weight (manual/automatic)2,776 lbs/2,822 lbs

I said it was harder to launch, also I had no idea about the weight was a complete guess I knew it was a bit heavier though.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by chiefshayan

I don't believe it's 200+ pounds because automatic is 2785, and if I remember correctly the manual is in the high 2,600's. The noticeable difference is off the line, I own an automatic frs and no matter what mode you are in, it is slow as hell from 0.. if you're racing make sure you start at 40mph! 7.9 seems a bit high, I went to a strip and got 6.9 stock (removed spare tire and tools about 40lbs drop in weight)! Maybe just depends on what sea level you're at (Higher above sea level will slow the car down drastically if not boosted).

I wonder where the 0-60 times were tested

[PSJohnDoe]

I personally find sport mode useless for anything other than straight line acceleration.

The problem with downshifting to first is that it (for lack of a better term) engages the clutch for you and it's hard to predict the moment it will. So you go from engine braking to no braking to you braking (or engine braking and you braking against the engine to you braking with virtually no resistance). I've found that downshifting to first above 18 MPH leads to far more predictable stops.

[Tylub]

Originally Posted by PSJohnDoe

I personally find sport mode useless for anything other than straight line acceleration.

The problem with downshifting to first is that it (for lack of a better term) engages the clutch for you and it's hard to predict the moment it will. So you go from engine braking to no braking to you braking (or engine braking and you braking against the engine to you braking with virtually no resistance). I've found that downshifting to first above 18 MPH leads to far more predictable stops.

I think you're thinking too much into this. realistically, in a manual you wouldn't really downshift into first sub 15mph anyways (unless you're racing ) also if you do, we normally slowly engage the clutch. the reason why it's unpredictable is because the auto is still trying to do an aggressive downshift resulting in that kick you feel.

just enjoy the car man, it'll all come naturally to you later

[PSJohnDoe]

Originally Posted by Tylub

I think you're thinking too much into this. realistically, in a manual you wouldn't really downshift into first sub 15mph anyways (unless you're racing ) also if you do, we normally slowly engage the clutch. the reason why it's unpredictable is because the auto is still trying to do an aggressive downshift resulting in that kick you feel.

It's not actually just agressive shifting, at a certain point in the slowing process it seems to drop from first to neutral which makes you go from decelerating moderately fast to coasting. The reaction of the driver is to brake when that happens (because at this point you're usually near whatever you are stopping behind). This moderate deceleration to virtually no deceleration to quick deceleration is the cause of the jumpy stops in manual mode when shifting all the way through the stop.

This wasn't a recommendation or endorsement, I was answering Oburn's later comments about 2 to 1 shifts not happening smoothly. I only use manual mode if I'm doing spirited driving, in that mode I have the engine doing most of the deceleration for me. I'm nearly always in drive mode, though, I believe the transmission chooses what I want to do 99% of the time in normal drive mode.

I have activated sport maybe 6 times in the 10k miles I've driven because Drive mode does so well and Sport doesn't do well enough predicting the gear I would choose for myself (but the Sport mode would probably be a thousand times harder to get right than Drive, so I don't fault the engineers for that).

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Spartan65

I do have to interject to the accuracy of your statement, If you have it in manual mode and don't shift into the next gear it will not do it for you, and if you miss a shift it will bounce on the rev limiter. And it will not upshift unless you do it yourself.

You are partially correct. It will not shift up, it will just bounce off the rev limiter. I believe the manual does the same.

The A/T will downshift if you get into an engine stall state. It's somewhere around 1200RPM I believe. Easy to try, put in manual, shift into third and then stop the car. It will stay into third until the point where a manual would buck and shut off the engine. Instead, the AT downshifts.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Symmetrical

Having an 6AT myself, the reason the 0-60mph is so slow compared to a manual is really because there is no way in hell to launch this thing from a dig. I'm sure from a rolling start it is more comparable. And no the AUTO is NOT 200lbs heavier, it's only 46lbs. Base curb weight (manual/automatic)2,776 lbs/2,822 lbs

You can get a semi-decent launch if you don't press the brake all the way in, but it would be hard to hold a line.

If you could get a full "clutch drop" type launch, I actually think the AT would be faster because it will do 60MPH in second gear (I've done it) while the MT requires a shift to 3rd to hit 60 (or so I'm told).

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Hmm. Who cares about the speed, I just like the fact paddles make me feel like an F1 driver. Also maybe they will add some sort of launch control in the future, I know Ferrari's and Nissan's launch control holds first or second gear and constantly modulates the brakes for best traction and acceleration then learns the surface once you do it once making it a tenth of a second or two faster the next time you run it on that surface, maybe in the next generation?