Sportsguy's AVO Turbo experience, the Good the Bad and the Ugly

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Bigmaxy

This is a fantastic thread and I for one appreciate the honesty that demonstrates the hurdles that have been discovered and overcome. Cheers.

David is not only honest but a true class act!! He has written countless threads in high detail about each of his mods and experiences installing them and driving them too...no bias ever just says it like it is. I also try to deliver the same transparency with my reviews of parts but David has dedicated far more time and energy to this community than any of us can imagine. I applaud him for his hard work and dedication and for being a great guy. I was fortunate enough to meet him and see his car do a few pulls with FA20Club and King Tut and it was a pretty cool experience seeing both cars in person.

David, now that Tony has you dialed in...I want a ride!! You're like me, bro..you wear your emotions on your sleeve. It was great to see your excitement as your car built more and more power...customers like you make Tony's job worth it!! Thanks again man!

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

David is not only honest but a true class act!! He has written countless threads in high detail about each of his mods and experiences installing them and driving them too...no bias ever just says it like it is. I also try to deliver the same transparency with my reviews of parts but David has dedicated far more time and energy to this community than any of us can imagine. I applaud him for his hard work and dedication and for being a great guy. I was fortunate enough to meet him and see his car do a few pulls with FA20Club and King Tut and it was a pretty cool experience seeing both cars in person.

David, now that Tony has you dialed in...I want a ride!! You're like me, bro..you wear your emotions on your sleeve. It was great to see your excitement as your car built more and more power...customers like you make Tony's job worth it!! Thanks again man!

As soon as we get together again, you got it!! I was impressed with you, having your pedigree and still such a down to earth guy!

We should meet up again soon!

[RYU]

Is there a thread somewhere that helps us understand the differences in the radiators? I don't want to monkey up this thread with a OT post but I know I need to upgrade rads before going FI and trying to make the most informed choice as possible.

I've had problems with Koyo rads before in that they simply do not have enough cooling capacity (in my other 2 boosted cars). I also don't think a radiator needs to be thicker than the stock endtanks to be efficient enough to cool FI cars.

Hopefully someone can chime in. Is it safe to say the Robi rad or FB does not fit 100% like stock? It sounds like they push the condenser (which is mounted on the rad) forward towards the front of the car a bit.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by RYU

Hopefully someone can chime in. Is it safe to say the Robi rad or FB does not fit 100% like stock? It sounds like they push the condenser (which is mounted on the rad) forward towards the front of the car a bit.

I just saw that I had not replied to your last PM (my bad, been busy). I believe a radiator as thick as the endtanks should fit.

Like i said in my previous PM and post in the thread, Robispec version 1 was huge, and there was no way to fit it.

He says version two should fit, just modifying the condenser brackets, and I agree it should add enough space (by limit the space between the radiator and the condenser) to fit.

IMHO, modifying those condenser brackets to make them shorter should also allow the FBM radiator to fit.


To answer your question, none of the aftermarket radiators fit like the stock one. All of them push the condenser towards the front of the car and/or push the fans farther into the engine bay.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

To answer your question, none of the aftermarket radiators fit like the stock one. All of them push the condenser towards the front of the car and/or push the fans farther into the engine bay.

There really isn't a way to fit a bigger radiator in that space without doing one or the other...it's not a magic pocket dimension.

[RYU]

Ok, it seems i'll have to go out and commission to have a rad made with 100% OEM Fit but 3x the cooling capacity. We did that with my other car with much success. Unfortunately it seems all the rads available so far need to go bigger to cool these FI motors.

Stay tuned...

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by RYU

Ok, it seems i'll have to go out and commission to have a rad made with 100% OEM Fit but 3x the cooling capacity. We did that with my other car with much success. Unfortunately it seems all the rads available so far need to go bigger to cool these FI motors.

Stay tuned...

LMK your results.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by RYU

Ok, it seems i'll have to go out and commission to have a rad made with 100% OEM Fit but 3x the cooling capacity. We did that with my other car with much success. Unfortunately it seems all the rads available so far need to go bigger to cool these FI motors.

Stay tuned...

How do you plan to get 3x the cooling while maintaing the OEM size? The Full Blown and Koyo radiators both drop right in a stock car and both fit 100% with OEM components.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by King Tut

How do you plan to get 3x the cooling while maintaing the OEM size? The Full Blown and Koyo radiators both drop right in a stock car and both fit 100% with OEM components.

But apparently they don't fit 100% like stock otherwise Sportsguy83 wouldn't be having the problem he's having with the condenser (via the condenser bracket) being moved too far forward and hitting the FMIC, right?

Good question. There is a lot of science that goes into a proper radiator core design. Metalurgy, tube size, fin density, fin pitch, and expected air pressure drop. Most manufacturers like Koyo use the same fin and tube design for all their rads. They do not optimize them for each car's coolant flow and air flow. That's why most rad companies either go A) bigger core or B) they simply don't work as good at the limits especially at higher rpms on a hot day, in dry air, with a big condenser and FMIC blocking the rad's air flow. Like Koyos where they are basically all mass produced cores. They work very well as stock replacements (usually) but I haven't had much luck with them when pushed to the limits like in a track spec FI car.

Been here.. done that. Now just need to put in the work because it appears there's no off-the-shelf solution where the answer is just to go bigger. Bigger isn't always better.

Sorry @Sportsguy83 for going OT here.

BTW: the first thing I would do is to upgrade the stock fans. The entire cooling system especially the FMIC will benefit from it.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by RYU

But apparently they don't fit 100% like stock otherwise Sportsguy83 wouldn't be having the problem he's having with the condenser (via the condenser bracket) being moved too far forward and hitting the FMIC, right?

What @King Tut is saying, is that with a stock car (without FMIC), both radiators fit 100% with no issues.


I have issues because I have AVO FMIC. If I were N/A, they would fit right in with no problems.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

What @King Tut is saying, is that with a stock car (without FMIC), both radiators fit 100% with no issues.


I have issues because I have AVO FMIC. If I were N/A, they would fit right in with no problems.

Yes, agreed. I think we're saying two different things though. In a stock car w/o FMIC the condersers are still moved forward with the FB and Robi rads, right? According to AVO their FMIC fit other rads that maintain that the stock location for the condenser.

Please let us know if you do find a solution for your setup. Sounds like grinding down/shortening the brackets will be a good solution if you plan to stick with those rads. I'm not sure if I speak for other folks here but i'm very interested in upgrading the radiator just like you did but also want it to fit the first time it's installed. You're doing us all a favor. Thank you!!!

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by RYU

Yes, agreed. I think we're saying two different things though. In a stock car w/o FMIC the condersers are still moved forward with the FB and Robi rads, right? According to AVO their FMIC fit other rads that maintain that the stock location for the condenser.

All aftermarket rads need to be bigger and to do so, there is no going around moving the condenser to the front (they all do). Koyo radiator moves the condenser to the front also, but its such a small amount that it fits with AVO IC.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

All aftermarket rads need to be bigger and to do so, there is no going around moving the condenser to the front (they all do). Koyo radiator moves the condenser to the front also, but its such a small amount that it fits with AVO IC.

they need to go bigger but not bigger than the end tanks! it needs to be denser maybe...yes

well this is all heresay until something is available. let me see what i can do. i've already commissioned the lab to get started on the calcs.

if you're saying the oem condenser is inside of the end tanks then I've got no case her. i guess now is a good time to remove my bumper to inspect this.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by RYU

they need to go bigger but not bigger than the end tanks! it needs to be denser maybe...yes

well this is all heresay until something is available. let me see what i can do. i've already commissioned the lab to get started on the calcs.

if you're saying the oem condenser is inside of the end tanks then I've got no case her. i guess now is a good time to remove my bumper to inspect this.

No, the condenser is not inside the endtanks.

I do understand what you are saying. What you are saying is just making the core as thick as the endtanks.

And you are correct, none of the current aftermarket radiators offer that, they all are thicker than the stock endtanks.