Question for BRZ and GT-87 hps?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

You like peaky low end turbo torque? 230/190 can only come from a turbo that makes power early (aka chokes off high rpm), or a poorly tuned 2.7 ish liter which will feel barely faster.

I have a feeling picking up about 10-20hp shouldn't be too hard on this motor given how it just dies after 7000. More than that will take some work.

Ideally, if I had a good amount of cash to throw around I'd like to see a 9000rpm redline 2.0L, with extensive weight reduction so it has about 1hp/10lb, so people driving giant displacement cars can't laugh at it lol. I figure a variable intake should be able to improve the low end performance a little bit.

What gave it away?

I'm really interested in what the stock components will be able to handle. Every "tuner" car from the Asian explosion more or less had stout engines that could take some serious abuse before needing rebuilds. Previous boxer experience leads me to believe that isn't the case, but we'll see...

10lbs per hp is 911 territory, that's going to take serious money.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

What gave it away?

I'm really interested in what the stock components will be able to handle. Every "tuner" car from the Asian explosion more or less had stout engines that could take some serious abuse before needing rebuilds. Previous boxer experience leads me to believe that isn't the case, but we'll see...

10lbs per hp is 911 territory, that's going to take serious money.

A stock STI motor will be better than 10lb/hp in the BRZ. Not the easiest swap, but not impossible.

[tachi1247]

just out of curiosity who doesn't like low end torque? Torque really isn't important in the high rev range unless your trying to set top speed records.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

A stock STI motor will be better than 10lb/hp in the BRZ. Not the easiest swap, but not impossible.

Wiring nightmare. Maybe for a race car because that's going to take a standalone ECU solution. Wonder how much that affects handling/weight distribution, among other things. I recall they changed the geometry of quite a few components in moving from the EJ to the FB to the FA.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

What gave it away?

I'm really interested in what the stock components will be able to handle. Every "tuner" car from the Asian explosion more or less had stout engines that could take some serious abuse before needing rebuilds. Previous boxer experience leads me to believe that isn't the case, but we'll see...

10lbs per hp is 911 territory, that's going to take serious money.

I'm trying to think of how much weight can be trimmed off without stripping the interior and AC...if 200 pounds can be cut off it will only need 250hp to get to 911 territory, aka the power peak needs to be shifted to 8400ish rather than 7000 (as you probably noticed, I prefer NA just based on principle). Dunno how much that is going to take, but it could very well need a new block. Oh and E85 might be able to hit 250hp at 8000rpm...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I'm trying to think of how much weight can be trimmed off without stripping the interior and AC...if 200 pounds can be cut off it will only need 250hp to get to 911 territory, aka the power peak needs to be shifted to 8400ish rather than 7000 (as you probably noticed, I prefer NA just based on principle). Dunno how much that is going to take, but it could very well need a new block. Oh and E85 might be able to hit 250hp at 8000rpm...

i was going to say with that much work you might as well just buy a 911 but then i started thinking about how even if you wring out this scion past the point of reliability it will probably be no more costly than a porsche to own

[Corey]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

daily driving. It would be nice not to wind it out to 6000 rpm to feel like I'm in a sports car. A very small percentage of these cars will actually see time on the track so any justification that the car will have all the power it needs on the track is bs.

So you say the car's ability at a track isn't justification but you think daily driving is a good reason to have more power? Seriously? The power it has is far more than enough to pass someone on the highway and do double any speed limit I've ever seen in America, how could you possibly justify more power for daily driving? The fact that a very small number of them will see the track is precisely why it doesn't need more power. People like you don't need it regardless of how much you want it, and the majority of the people who do bring the car to a track do not have the driving ability to benefit from it, especially given how awful the stock tires are reputed to be. If you need to "wind it out to 6000 rpm to feel like [you're] in a sports car" then maybe this isn't the car for you, and you definitely shouldn't be driving like that on public streets anyway. There are plenty of affordable alternatives with more power if that's your thing. For better or worse though Toyota/Subaru is not designing or marketing this car to people looking for power with a 35k budget.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I'm trying to think of how much weight can be trimmed off without stripping the interior and AC...if 200 pounds can be cut off it will only need 250hp to get to 911 territory, aka the power peak needs to be shifted to 8400ish rather than 7000 (as you probably noticed, I prefer NA just based on principle). Dunno how much that is going to take, but it could very well need a new block. Oh and E85 might be able to hit 250hp at 8000rpm...

What other heavy components are there though? Smaller brakes or two-piece rotors with forged aluminum calipers would shave a bit. Forged wheels a bit more. Speakers perhaps, head unit/nav, trunk crap, maybe replace the rear seats with a formed carbon cover that emulates seats...I'm not seeing too many places to remove weight without really killing the interior/making the car unsafe.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

What other heavy components are there though? Smaller brakes or two-piece rotors with forged aluminum calipers would shave a bit. Forged wheels a bit more. Speakers perhaps, head unit/nav, trunk crap, maybe replace the rear seats with a formed carbon cover that emulates seats...I'm not seeing too many places to remove weight without really killing the interior/making the car unsafe.

Yea that's the thing, I can't think of anywhere to take weight off lol, everything is just trimming maybe a couple of pounds. Lighter driveshaft and stuff is quite a bit of money, lighter panels made of fiberglass could be cost effective, but since the trunk and hood are already aluminum there's not much weight to lose.

I'm putting my hopes on the STI model, from the factory they should be able to shave weight by installing fiberglass or aluminum quarterpanels rather than steel ones, maybe aluminum suspension components, aluminum driveshaft, aluminum brake calipers, less speakers (seriously, last time I checked most people haulers weren't coming with 8 speakers...I never use it anyways), composite roof. I could see that dropping a fair amount of weight, maybe 100 pounds. Most importantly, if they do everything I listed then the car has pretty much lost all the weight it can lose before getting really spendy.

And you could split hairs by having AGM battery with higher charging current + alternator kill switch for city/track driving (only charging when braking), and then electric water pump, which would save like 2hp or something lol.

[OrbitalEllipses]

That would be expensive. The WRX STI doesn't even have those outside of the JDM super-special models.

[serialk11r]

But the WRX STI has a more powerful engine and stuff, it's gotta offer something different...from the factory, putting on a slightly more expensive fiberglass panel here and there shouldn't cost very much. The aluminum suspension bits might be cost prohibitive though, but it would be nice if they could shed all the body panel weight possible since it's extremely expensive to do that aftermarket.

[Godzpeed]

With proper tuned suspension and tires, I have a feeling that the 86's chassis will be over superior to the power it have. we will be using the power at its limits while the chassis hardly reaches its limits.

I think with another 100HP wouldn't hurt.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Godzpeed

With proper tuned suspension and tires, I have a feeling that the 86's chassis will be over superior to the power it have. we will be using the power at its limits while the chassis hardly reaches its limits.

I think with another 100HP wouldn't hurt.

From reviews that statement is made about the car stock

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by spin9k

My 8 has 232HP / 159ft-lbs and it's top speed is speced @148mph. It would take the salt flats and a qtr tank of gas to get going that fast lol. I was't using any real numbers, just showing how a 350HP car can pass another lower HP car at higher speed becuase of available HP.

However you slice it, lower p/w ratio cars hit the drag wall faster than those with excess HP to use. And that typically means lower useable top end.

exactly, i plan on making a 300whp with about 200lbs in weight reduction 2 mile track monster, and eventually take it to the ring to see how it fairs

the graph is on an 8 series bmw not an rx-8 rx-8's are fun me and a bud going drifting in the snow every year, FWD now powersliding FTL lol, its still fun, its something to do while the beater beats until the 86 is out

Originally Posted by Godzpeed

With proper tuned suspension and tires, I have a feeling that the 86's chassis will be over superior to the power it have. we will be using the power at its limits while the chassis hardly reaches its limits.

I think with another 100HP wouldn't hurt.

and whats wrong with that, that means i dont have to spend money on upgrading the car to handle more hp, and spend money on making more hp..