Question for BRZ and GT-87 hps?

[Gadflyii]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

50 pounds if it's done by a private shop that doesn't design and test it to meet all worldwide emissions standards and to last 100,000+ miles of driving in numerous weather, conditions, and environments.

In reality, a turbocharger means more cooling (larger radiator, piping, oil cooler(s)), larger wheels and tires, transmission upgrades (synchros, input/output shafts, driveshaft), various suspension upgrades, many of which involve greater weight like half-shafts, calipers, rotors, larger master cylinder.

Then you have to meet low-speed impact requirements which may require additional reinforcement in the front to protect the additional hardware.

So now you have a 3200 pound car with 280 horsepower that is essentially another direct competitor to the 370Z in both price and size.

Come on.. seriously? 500lbs? Not by a long shot... point and case...

2011 Subaru Impreza manual (base model, no options): 3075 lbs
2011 Subaru Impreza WRX manual: 3208 lbs

That is 133lbs difference with all the additional standard equipment....

So yes.. @50 lbs in a shop, and @100lbs if the OEM does it.

[Gadflyii]

Originally Posted by cyde01

i'm not saying balance can only be attained without a supercharger or turbocharger.

let me rephrase from my earlier post. this car is all about balance AND low cost. yes, you can add boost to this car and have a lot more torque and hp with minimal weight gains. and the car would cost $32k. not to mention all the added maintenance cost that boost demands. so what's the point, when there are so many other alternatives at that price point, like the 370z, genesis coupe, the domestic pony cars, etc etc.

no, the things that distinguish this car are awesome balance (as in low weight, compact dimensions, extreme low center of gravity) and inexpensive msrp (and a hardtop, to distinguish it from a miata).

32k?.. the WRX is AWD, and turbo charged and is 26k MSRP; the 270hp Genesis Coupe 2.0T R spec is 26k MSRP....

Both are larger, more expensive cars to make than the BRZ/ FR-S. Subaru already have the engine developed. Adding the turbo motor and all the supporting components would likely only add ~$1000 to the production costs of the car.

In addition, If you look the maintenance schedules on the Impreza, and the WRX I am quite sure you will find they are exactly the same.

What would distinguish the BRZ/FRS would be that same balance in a 2900lbs, 280hp 250 ft/lbs package at a market competitive price of 25-27k...

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by nate89

I too have owned many Bugatti Veyron's, lambos, and zonda's. I always drive at 2000mph and have years of non stop track experience. It's always the kid in the 90hp ricer civic who drives like an idiot. Also I spend millions of dollars on gas every year at my oil refinery in yellow stone park. =p

That's one way to call someone a liar.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Gadflyii

Come on.. seriously? 500lbs? Not by a long shot... point and case...

2011 Subaru Impreza manual (base model, no options): 3075 lbs
2011 Subaru Impreza WRX manual: 3208 lbs

That is 133lbs difference with all the additional standard equipment....

So yes.. @50 lbs in a shop, and @100lbs if the OEM does it.

Add another ~130lbs for the STI with larger brakes (weight mostly in the iron, not the caliper), beefier transmission, and beefier rear end. AWD and loads of torque don't play nice, hence the need for that awesome transmission (which I believe is where MOST of the weight differential comes from). The question with this car will not be whether or not it can take turbo, but rather how much turbo it can take before other components fail/need to upgraded as well.

[tachi1247]

Originally Posted by Gadflyii

32k?.. the WRX is AWD, and turbo charged and is 26k MSRP; the 270hp Genesis Coupe 2.0T R spec is 26k MSRP....

Both are larger, more expensive cars to make than the BRZ/ FR-S. Subaru already have the engine developed. Adding the turbo motor and all the supporting components would likely only add ~$1000 to the production costs of the car.

In addition, If you look the maintenance schedules on the Impreza, and the WRX I am quite sure you will find they are exactly the same.

What would distinguish the BRZ/FRS would be that same balance in a 2900lbs, 280hp 250 ft/lbs package at a market competitive price of 25-27k...

A turbo brz will definitely come in close to or above $30k. They have been saying mid 20s all along for the base model so the extra upgrades in the turbo version will definitely add a few thousand to the limited price. An sti version would probably use the limited model as a starting point sans the leather and then add on suspension bits, etc from there.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by koyv90

k20/k24 got great torque.
Mitsubishi lancer evos and subaru wrxs also got great torque outputs.

This one is debatable. And I don't agree with you on this one.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by koyv90

k20/k24 got great torque.
Mitsubishi lancer evos and subaru wrxs also got great torque outputs.

That depends. The 2L WRX was not famous for its torque (certainly made more torque than your run of mill Japanese N/A 4 banger), but the 2.5L engines obviously made a whole lot more. Especially in 2009+ guise with the larger/redesigned turbochargers.

[Gadflyii]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

That's one way to call someone a liar.

That is OK with me, I have nothing to prove to anyone, especially eWarriors on a scion forum. Those who want to listen to what I want to say are welcome to.. if not, oh well.

[Gadflyii]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

A turbo brz will definitely come in close to or above $30k. They have been saying mid 20s all along for the base model so the extra upgrades in the turbo version will definitely add a few thousand to the limited price. An sti version would probably use the limited model as a starting point sans the leather and then add on suspension bits, etc from there.

Then it would be radically overpriced, and only the die hard fan boys would buy it. Then again the base BRZ/FRS at 25k is already radically overpriced, the limited at 28k is laughable.

[Gadflyii]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Add another ~130lbs for the STI with larger brakes (weight mostly in the iron, not the caliper), beefier transmission, and beefier rear end. AWD and loads of torque don't play nice, hence the need for that awesome transmission (which I believe is where MOST of the weight differential comes from). The question with this car will not be whether or not it can take turbo, but rather how much turbo it can take before other components fail/need to upgraded as well.

agreed completely, but I can't imagine such a small light weight car only making 300hp to need a whole lot more than 100lbs. It is a VERY tiny, and fairly light weight car... the stock camary or wrx brakes would likely be more than enough... but you have a bit of a point, given that we already know the stock brakes are barely enough for the car as it is, if you make it quick, it likely would need a substantial brake upgrade.


In other news... I saw that the new Chevy Malibu 4 cycl. is rated at 270hp, and the family 4 door sedan goes 0-60 in 6.3s....

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

A turbo brz will definitely come in close to or above $30k. They have been saying mid 20s all along for the base model so the extra upgrades in the turbo version will definitely add a few thousand to the limited price. An sti version would probably use the limited model as a starting point sans the leather and then add on suspension bits, etc from there.

That isn't entirely true. When I first began following the project it was aimed at low $20k range. It isn't until more recently the figure has inflated to $25k.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Gadflyii

agreed completely, but I can't imagine such a small light weight car only making 300hp to need a whole lot more than 100lbs. It is a VERY tiny, and fairly light weight car... the stock camary or wrx brakes would likely be more than enough... but you have a bit of a point, given that we already know the stock brakes are barely enough for the car as it is, if you make it quick, it likely would need a substantial brake upgrade.


In other news... I saw that the new Chevy Malibu 4 cycl. is rated at 270hp, and the family 4 door sedan goes 0-60 in 6.3s....

Says who? Stock brakes are more than enough for the stock car from what I have read.

[Gadflyii]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Says who? Stock brakes are more than enough for the stock car from what I have read.

Well the first thing that jumps to mind is the Chris Harris review, he reported brake fade after just a few laps on a very short, low speed circuit.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3639

If what he says is true, then High performance pads and some slotted rotors will allow the stock brakes to handle light track duty with a stock car, but if 100hp was added, and the average lap speed increased, the car would require a substantial brake upgrade was my only point.

Was not knocking the car at all. Stock brakes are 100% ok for street use.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Gadflyii

Well the first thing that jumps to mind is the Chris Harris review, he reported brake fade after just a few laps on a very short, low speed circuit.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3639

If what he says is true, then High performance pads and some slotted rotors will allow the stock brakes to handle light track duty with a stock car, but if 100hp was added, and the average lap speed increased, the car would require a substantial brake upgrade was my only point.

Was not knocking the car at all. Stock brakes are 100% ok for street use.

That is what I was talking about. DD street car the brakes are more than ok. For track duties you would need to do pads and brake fluid. Might even need to do brake lines.