Question for BRZ and GT-87 hps?

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Corey

RPM alone is meaningless. Unless you're at full throttle the engine is only producing a fraction of what you'd see on a dyno chart at any given rpm.

That should be obvious - if it were otherwise you would have no way of controlling acceleration rates as the throttle would just be a binary on-off switch!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Max Schnell

Not by choice but the on-ramp on my commutes are parking lots during rush hour. However, often times its also not flowing because someone got the jitters and decided not to accelerate to merge and instead decides to slow down and wait for a huge opening so they can cruise in at 20mph into 75mph traffic.

I think my preference for having more power is because I have a choice to go faster as desired when desired. You are not "limited" by the power output of the car as you know there are plenty on tap. Somedays I am not in the mood to floor my car and rev the snot of it just to get up to speed quickly. Driving a 12 second car as a 14 second car is much easier than trying to make a 15 second car do a 14 second run if you can follow my reasoning.

This is exactly how I feel about it. Just because there is more power doesn't mean I want to use all of it. It could also mean that the low-mid range is more richer in usable power rather than having to rev high all the time to go somewhere.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by Max Schnell

Not by choice but the on-ramp on my commutes are parking lots during rush hour. However, often times its also not flowing because someone got the jitters and decided not to accelerate to merge and instead decides to slow down and wait for a huge opening so they can cruise in at 20mph into 75mph traffic.

I think my preference for having more power is because I have a choice to go faster as desired when desired. You are not "limited" by the power output of the car as you know there are plenty on tap. Somedays I am not in the mood to floor my car and rev the snot of it just to get up to speed quickly. Driving a 12 second car as a 14 second car is much easier than trying to make a 15 second car do a 14 second run if you can follow my reasoning.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Bingo! We are likely splitting hairs in nomenclature - specifically around what need and want mean - but really anyone who 'needs' more power than that delivered by a base model new car, is not someone I really want to share the roads with.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by Max Schnell

Not by choice but the on-ramp on my commutes are parking lots during rush hour. However, often times its also not flowing because someone got the jitters and decided not to accelerate to merge and instead decides to slow down and wait for a huge opening so they can cruise in at 20mph into 75mph traffic.

I think my preference for having more power is because I have a choice to go faster as desired when desired. You are not "limited" by the power output of the car as you know there are plenty on tap. Somedays I am not in the mood to floor my car and rev the snot of it just to get up to speed quickly. Driving a 12 second car as a 14 second car is much easier than trying to make a 15 second car do a 14 second run if you can follow my reasoning.

And that is totally fine, but for some people the fun is the challenge of driving the slower car fast.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Corey

And that is totally fine, but for some people the fun is the challenge of driving the slower car fast.

My only problem with driving a slower car fast is that it feels like you're stressing out the engine(N/A 4 cylinders suffer from this badly) and the NVH sounds and feels terrible in daily driving. I hope the boxer 4 is a smooth engine.

[Max Schnell]

Originally Posted by Corey

And that is totally fine, but for some people the fun is the challenge of driving the slower car fast.

Which is perfectly fine. "Fun" is so subjective to each individual that we would never get an agreement on what constitutes it anyway. :happy0180:

[Gadflyii]

Wow.....

After reading this thread, I have to admit I am a bit... well... lets just say taken back.

To each their own..

Personally.. I have had MANY sports cars, ranging from 200hp to 1200hp. Corvettes, 911's, GTR's, Supra's, GTO, several DSM's, Miata, Civic Si, even a Focus...

I have hundreds of track hours over the last 20 years, I have made hundreds of passes down the 1/4 mile, and yes, I have taken part in hundreds of highway pulls and other street races. Yet, your average large pickup (this is Texas), or kid in a 150hp civic drives much more like an ass than I ever have.

How you drive is not determined by what car you have, but what car you have does determine how you can drive.

As of yet... I have not found a point where a car had too much power for the street; Nor has a car ever accelerated too fast, broke too hard, had too much grip, or a high enough top speed... Anyone is free to disagree, but that does not make you right.

As for how much money I spend on gas? Well that is my business.. if you don't like it, you can suck on my high octane leaded exhaust gasses.

[cyde01]

yeah but practically all the sports cars built today are about power. the miata and now the frs are the ONLY sports cars not about power. they were designed to be different from the start, to buck the trend, they were advertised as such, targeted towards people that want to buck the trend.

if you are into torque, plain and simple: more cylinders than 4 is ideal for you. 4 cylinder engines are just not built for low or midrange, if you build a 4 cylinder for torque you sacrifice top end horsepower like in the ka24. so what you want is something with more cylinders, but you can't stick an engine with more cylinders in a lightweight compact car like the miata or the frs without using expensive materials like the 6 cylinder exige or evora.

if this car was built for torque and horsepower, it would be just like all the other sports cars on the market today. if horsepower is what you want, why not just buy what's already on sale now? the new z's lighter and more compact than the old one. the domestic pony cars are heavy but a good value as far as horsepower per dollar.

this car was built for balance, something that a select few find even more important than power to weight. and it was built for that small minority of people who "get it." the reason why it wasn't built for people who prioritize torque, power to weight, and power to dollar is because there are plenty of options on the market for people like that already!

[nate89]

I too have owned many Bugatti Veyron's, lambos, and zonda's. I always drive at 2000mph and have years of non stop track experience. It's always the kid in the 90hp ricer civic who drives like an idiot. Also I spend millions of dollars on gas every year at my oil refinery in yellow stone park. =p

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by nate89

I too have owned many Bugatti Veyron's, lambos, and zonda's. I always drive at 2000mph and have years of non stop track experience. It's always the kid in the 90hp ricer civic who drives like an idiot. Also I spend millions of dollars on gas every year at my oil refinery in yellow stone park. =p

Lovely!
I was waiting for something to come along to be a signature

[Gadflyii]

Originally Posted by cyde01

yeah but practically all the sports cars built today are about power. the miata and now the frs are the ONLY sports cars not about power. they were designed to be different from the start, to buck the trend, they were advertised as such, targeted towards people that want to buck the trend.

if you are into torque, plain and simple: more cylinders than 4 is ideal for you. 4 cylinder engines are just not built for low or midrange, if you build a 4 cylinder for torque you sacrifice top end horsepower like in the ka24. so what you want is something with more cylinders, but you can't stick an engine with more cylinders in a lightweight compact car like the miata or the frs without using expensive materials like the 6 cylinder exige or evora.

if this car was built for torque and horsepower, it would be just like all the other sports cars on the market today. if horsepower is what you want, why not just buy what's already on sale now? the new z's lighter and more compact than the old one. the domestic pony cars are heavy but a good value as far as horsepower per dollar.

this car was built for balance, something that a select few find even more important than power to weight. and it was built for that small minority of people who "get it." the reason why it wasn't built for people who prioritize torque, power to weight, and power to dollar is because there are plenty of options on the market for people like that already!

Eh... yes and no.

Balance can be found and obtained without pushing into super car territory, or without sacrificing overall performance. Balance can be found at any performance level, high or low.

If you were take the FRS/BRZ, exactly how it is now but put the turbo charged version of the same engine making 280hp and a flat 250 ft/lbs torque curve in the car you *might* increase the curb weight by what 50lbs? Are you really going to sacrifice balance and handling just because it has more power? No.. you're not. Sure you will need some suspension tuning, increased mechanical grip, and better brakes, but nothing outrageous.

I had a great balance in my Supra when it was set up in road racing trim. It put 600hp to the tires, had a flat torque curve from 3000 rpm to 8000rpm and was an absolute joy to drive.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by Gadflyii

If you were take the FRS/BRZ, exactly how it is now but put the turbo charged version of the same engine making 280hp and a flat 250 ft/lbs torque curve in the car you *might* increase the curb weight by what 50lbs? Are you really going to sacrifice balance and handling just because it has more power? No.. you're not. Sure you will need some suspension tuning, increased mechanical grip, and better brakes, but nothing outrageous.

50 pounds if it's done by a private shop that doesn't design and test it to meet all worldwide emissions standards and to last 100,000+ miles of driving in numerous weather, conditions, and environments.

In reality, a turbocharger means more cooling (larger radiator, piping, oil cooler(s)), larger wheels and tires, transmission upgrades (synchros, input/output shafts, driveshaft), various suspension upgrades, many of which involve greater weight like half-shafts, calipers, rotors, larger master cylinder.

Then you have to meet low-speed impact requirements which may require additional reinforcement in the front to protect the additional hardware.

So now you have a 3200 pound car with 280 horsepower that is essentially another direct competitor to the 370Z in both price and size.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

My only problem with driving a slower car fast is that it feels like you're stressing out the engine(N/A 4 cylinders suffer from this badly) and the NVH sounds and feels terrible in daily driving. I hope the boxer 4 is a smooth engine.

Hmmm hadn't thought of this before, I guess that's usually one of the problems with 4 cylinder engines...6 cylinder engines are noticably smoother.

It's been a while since I've been in a Subaru, but I remember that a 2002 WRX sounded very smooth at 7000rpm. Or maybe I was just really terrified of how fast the car was going From the videos I don't think this car sounds too harsh at high rpm, but I question the noise pipe philosophy as it seems to make the car very loud...I think a lot of people will toss that thing out.