Comparison of the best ~2 liter N/A engines ever produced

[thill]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Sure, but how many are < 3000lbs and RWD?

None, but if you care more about hp/tq 0-60 and 1/4 mile times you will have a tradeoff. Otherwise you are going to have to go used or mod. Or just suck it up.

[WolfpackS2k]

Just pointing out that a lot of people bought the car in spite of it's woeful power output as there are no other options.

[thill]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Just pointing out that a lot of people bought the car in spite of it's woeful power output as there are no other options.

Then you knew what you were getting. It would be like buying a Challenger and constantly complaining about the weight..

[BRZ21]

bump... I want to keep reading this discussion. most interesting thread on the forum

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Just pointing out that a lot of people bought the car in spite of it's woeful power output as there are no other options.

Power output is higher than just about any NA engine out there.

So is torque at low rpm.

There is no torque dip, there are two torque peaks. This results from VVT that isn't continuous.

The Porsche Cayman flat 6 exhibits EXACTLY the same torque curve patterns and nobody whines about that.

FIAT may have the answer with their multi air design. This uses variabke hydraulic valve lifters to vary the valve lift and duration by changing the height of the hydraulic valve adjusters. Exceptionally ingenious design but patented to FIAT Powertrain. The result is a theoretically infinite cam profile. The tricky part is response time.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Power output is higher than just about any NA engine out there.

So is torque at low rpm.

There is no torque dip, there are two torque peaks. This results from VVT that isn't continuous.

The Porsche Cayman flat 6 exhibits EXACTLY the same torque curve patterns and nobody whines about that.

FIAT may have the answer with their multi air design. This uses variabke hydraulic valve lifters to vary the valve lift and duration by changing the height of the hydraulic valve adjusters. Exceptionally ingenious design but patented to FIAT Powertrain. The result is a theoretically infinite cam profile. The tricky part is response time.

Read the Cayman forums sometime - there are definitely people complaining about that torque dip too. People are never happy with their cars - there are always little things they want to change, weight to remove, power to add, etc...

(That having been said, I agree with your basic point - just because people are whining about it doesn't mean that I think they are justified in their complaints)

[GT86meMR2]

The Torque dip is fixable with a good header and a tune so why would someone live with the dip when you can do something about it

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by BRZmeMR2

The Torque dip is fixable with a good header and a tune so why would someone live with the dip when you can do something about it

Because they like having a warranty?

[SUB-FT86]

After owning my G35 for a while the only thing I hate about it is I wish It was 300-400 lbs lighter. That's it but I can rarely feel that weight unless I hit a corner aggressively. This is one reason why I believe folks take more to GT's than Lightweight 4 cylinder Sports cars. As a daily driver the compromises is not that bad but as a track beast it would probably understeer more. I would rather bitch about my car needing to be 300 lbs lighter than needing more power/torque. I owned a RSX and I hated that engine with a passion vs the weight I hate in my G35.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by BRZmeMR2

The Torque dip is fixable with a good header and a tune so why would someone live with the dip when you can do something about it

It's not actually. The mods i have read about mean you give up some peak lower speed torque to flatten out the "dip" which is a loss in my opinion.


This engine is tuned to drive well around town when you generally short shift into fourth or fifth at 30 mph and to drive extremely well whenever you can run the engine up to red line. The minor torque drop at sound 4,000 rpm is very easy to avoid or just drive through. You will need to use a lower gear than you think to accelerate to pass on the highway though. No aftermarket tune will fix that unless it also involves a supercharger.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

After owning my G35 for a while the only thing I hate about it is I wish It was 300-400 lbs lighter. That's it but I can rarely feel that weight unless I hit a corner aggressively. This is one reason why I believe folks take more to GT's than Lightweight 4 cylinder Sports cars. As a daily driver the compromises is not that bad but as a track beast it would probably understeer more. I would rather bitch about my car needing to be 300 lbs lighter than needing more power/torque. I owned a RSX and I hated that engine with a passion vs the weight I hate in my G35.

At 3500lbs you feel the weight, with or without corners... all the time..
Power doesnt make up for COG or mass. You can overcome the
weight with power to accelerate , but its still there when you have to change direction or slow down. its all compromises.. everyone wants more power..
but the FRS already has enough to be very entertaining in stock form..

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

At 3500lbs you feel the weight, with or without corners... all the time..
Power doesnt make up for COG or mass. You can overcome the
weight with power to accelerate , but its still there when you have to change direction or slow down. its all compromises.. everyone wants more power..
but the FRS already has enough to be very entertaining in stock form..

what?

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by fatoni

what?

try to figure it out.. why not read to what i replied to..

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

try to figure it out.. why not read to what i replied to..

i read what you replied to but it doesnt make what youre saying any more right or less contradictory.