Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

I think @Pat would be fine adding a Touge Factory brake cooling kit to his car while n/a. Both myself and @smbstyle have never had OEM or Centric blank rotors crack while running the TF cooling kit after several track days. We both run track pads and block the excessive heat from radiating into the calipers by using titanium shims behind the pads. Our dust boots are still in very good condition after many track days pounding on the brakes as evidence the calipers are not over heating from dissipation from the rotors.

I'm not saying you're wrong about anything you've said, but I don't see the risk of failure being as great as you make it seem given you've provisioned the OEM front brakes with a comprehensive cooling solution, which several of us here use with no issues.

I'm just not sure that I agree with the conclusion that he NEEDS a BBK, especially before considering adding a cooling kit that comes at a significantly lower cost.

This.

The Touge Factory brake cooling kit has been fantastic; I am running OEM rotors (or Centric blank OEM replacements). I'm running R-comps with RCE T2 coilovers at a heavy braking track (Sebring) and am not getting ANY fade at all with the brake cooling kit, and I am an advanced driver and I am really pushing the car hard. I got a bit of a spongy pedal on Day 2 this past weekend at Sebring due the brake fluid I was running, but I was trying Cobalt XR1 pads for the first time (most aggressive compound) as well as having a 200lb passenger the entire day. No more RBF600 for me; Torque RT700 or SRF from now on. The caliper piston dust boots look brand spanking new since I have been using the titanium shims at every event. I tried running without them one time and the boots cracked a bit, so I replaced them during a caliper rebuild and have run the ti-shims ever since.

Track pads last me 3 to 4 track days, and 4 is cutting it close. Each day is 4 to 5 sessions that are 30 minutes each.

The OEM or OEM style blanks are holding up great; after about 8 total track days I toss the fronts, as they have normal heat checking on them, but it's too cheap of a replacement part to risk running a long time on them. I've been stock piling OEM rotors, and just got a pair for $20 for the fronts with about 5k miles on them, since everyone is jumping to a BBK.

I won't go BBK until/if I go FI. That's just me.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

This.

The Touge Factory brake cooling kit has been fantastic; I am running OEM rotors (or Centric blank OEM replacements). I'm running R-comps with RCE T2 coilovers at a heavy braking track (Sebring) and am not getting ANY fade at all with the brake cooling kit, and I am an advanced driver and I am really pushing the car hard. I got a bit of a spongy pedal on Day 2 this past weekend at Sebring due the brake fluid I was running, but I was trying Cobalt XR1 pads for the first time (most aggressive compound) as well as having a 200lb passenger the entire day. No more RBF600 for me; Torque RT700 or SRF from now on. The caliper piston dust boots look brand spanking new since I have been using the titanium shims at every event. I tried running without them one time and the boots cracked a bit, so I replaced them during a caliper rebuild and have run the ti-shims ever since.

Track pads last me 3 to 4 track days, and 4 is cutting it close. Each day is 4 to 5 sessions that are 30 minutes each.

The OEM or OEM style blanks are holding up great; after about 8 total track days I toss the fronts, as they have normal heat checking on them, but it's too cheap of a replacement part to risk running a long time on them. I've been stock piling OEM rotors, and just got a pair for $20 for the fronts with about 5k miles on them, since everyone is jumping to a BBK.

I won't go BBK until/if I go FI. That's just me.

Please see my above comments on caliper temperature. If you're boiling RBF600, it's really a sign that you're getting the caliper itself too hot.

Again, will you suffer a catastrophic failure? Probably not, but as your system ages, your risk will slowly increase.

We suffered a catastrophic failure at Super Lap Battle last year in one of our S2000s. This car had brake ducting, but was readily boiling RBF600. We compensated by using a higher grade fluid. The S2000 was running 255/40/17 Hankook RS3, and at the time, made around 375whp.

Total cost of the failure:

- On pace to set class record (by a good margin); DNF because of the failure, and no official recorded result
- A damaged custom made 17x10 +44 Volk CE28N
- A destroyed AP Racing CP8350 Caliper
- A destroyed Essex brake caliper bracket
- A shattered AP Racing rotor

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG David

As for pad use, we can burn through full track pads in 1-2 days (3-4 if we baby it) on stock calipers and rotors on the BRZ.

David, thanks for sharing that. My sessions are no more than 20 minutes. I typically run four sessions per day. Based on the three days I have so far on the BRZ, I'm guessing my DTC-60s will last 7 or 8 days. The rotors show no significant wear.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

I think @Pat would be fine adding a Touge Factory brake cooling kit to his car while n/a. Both myself and @smbstyle have never had OEM or Centric blank rotors crack while running the TF cooling kit after several track days. We both run track pads and block the excessive heat from radiating into the calipers by using titanium shims behind the pads. Our dust boots are still in very good condition after many track days pounding on the brakes as evidence the calipers are not over heating from dissipation from the rotors.

I'm not saying you're wrong about anything you've said, but I don't see the risk of failure being as great as you make it seem given you've provisioned the OEM front brakes with a comprehensive cooling solution, which several of us here use with no issues.

I'm just not sure that I agree with the conclusion that he NEEDS a BBK, especially before considering adding a cooling kit that comes at a significantly lower cost.



Again not saying you're wrong here about anything but with this application considering the car is n/a and the heat is controlled with cooling ducts directing air into the center of the rotors and through the vanes, plus the addition of titanium shims along with track pads/fluid, the risk of catastrophic failure is pretty low based on personal experiences shared here.

My running cost after adding the cooling kit: $100 per pair of Centric blank rotors in front that last at least 5 days of abuse with track pads (PMU Club racers at $200 per front set). I've burned through two sets of front pads so far in ~10 track days and now I'm on my third set. I'm convinced the cooling kit has significantly lowered my long-term running costs on consumables, without the big (well over $2k) initial investment that a BBK comes with.

All that said, I will still probably end up with a BBK at some point because I feel like I'm getting to the point in my driving experience that I am close to exploring the limits of my car as-is. Of course I'd like more power and I'm always considering adding more with a SC kit, but a BBK will certainly come before more power. Over-provisioning never hurts even if I change my mind about adding more power.

I don't disagree with your statements at all, but overheating the brake caliper does concern me.

Strictly speaking, from a ROI perspective, a used AP kit still has equity, and can be readily sold. We upgraded from a Sprint to Endurance on our 2014 BRZ, and had no issue selling our used Sprint kit. Our sale price was $1850 with a fresh rebuild and a fresh pair of rotors, and it was gone in days of the posting.

That being said, I still have a stock system on my S2000 (but I replace the lines every 15 track day or so). My excuse is that my wheels won't clear a BBK.

[solidONE]

You guys destroy brakes... Do you guys ramp up the brake pressure and trail off, or just stomp it then trail off entering turns?

I gradually increase and decrease brake pressure. Too little and too gradual, apparently. I've only managed to fade my stoptech pads once coming into the skidpad at SoW going CCW.... ONCE!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

David, thanks for sharing that. My sessions are no more than 20 minutes. I typically run four sessions per day. Based on the three days I have so far on the BRZ, I'm guessing my DTC-60s will last 7 or 8 days. The rotors show no significant wear.

What kind of tires do you run?

Please let me know if you do decide to test temps using temp paint and heat strips!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Is this at all dependent on the type of rotor? Say, would a DBA 5000 crack just as quickly as an OEM blank?

I really hope cracking != catastrophic failure.

Theoretically, yes, but our data set for the FRS is too small. On the S2000, every rotor will crack, period.

I used to buy Brembo blanks in bulk for ~55 each.

[Pat]

Right now Conti DWS. I know...I know....but they were free.
I've used RA-1s in the past. I have experience. I'm just too cheap to buy the right tires when I can use the wrong ones for free. I figure I'll burn through them this summer and get some NT-01s or similar next spring.
I plan on using temperature indicating paint at an event in July.

[buddy32]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Strictly speaking, from a ROI perspective, a used AP kit still has equity, and can be readily sold. We upgraded from a Sprint to Endurance on our 2014 BRZ, and had no issue selling our used Sprint kit. Our sale price was $1850 with a fresh rebuild and a fresh pair of rotors, and it was gone in days of the posting.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

Right now Conti DWS. I know...I know....but they were free.
I've used RA-1s in the past. I have experience. I'm just too cheap to buy the right tires when I can use the wrong ones for free. I figure I'll burn through them this summer and get some NT-01s or similar next spring.
I plan on using temperature indicating paint at an event in July.

Wait... you're getting the brakes that hot on DWS?

I have experience with DWS... I feel like I'm gonna die cuz there's no grip when it's dry... but it's an amazing rain tire.

I'm impressed.

[juliog]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

The caliper piston dust boots look brand spanking new since I have been using the titanium shims at every event. I tried running without them one time and the boots cracked a bit, so I replaced them during a caliper rebuild and have run the ti-shims ever since.

Interesting. I recently rebuilt my front calipers and found out one dust boot had some cracks on it. On the other hand, if I add titanium shims, I assume the pads and rotors will run hotter..?

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Wait... you're getting the brakes that hot on DWS?

I have experience with DWS... I feel like I'm gonna die cuz there's no grip when it's dry... but it's an amazing rain tire.

I'm impressed.

Dude....I'm so fast. You don't even know.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by juliog

Interesting. I recently rebuilt my front calipers and found out one dust boot had some cracks on it. On the other hand, if I add titanium shims, I assume the pads and rotors will run hotter..?

It's a "heat shield" of sorts, so yes.

[solidONE]

Too much "poosh"

http://jalopnik.com/amazing-ford-fie...ium=socialflow