Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[Fricke]

Originally Posted by MaximeT

OEM wing makes 1,5kg on downforce thanks to its weight :p

It's ugly and useless.

[Fricke]

Originally Posted by cjd

It does reduce drag ever so slightly if I remember right.

That's probably right, think I remember that now from the flow dynamic video, whit the small scale toy car.
But then the question is, is the TRD any better.
Ever so slightly

[ottoyu34]

Originally Posted by cjd

It does reduce drag ever so slightly if I remember right.

Pretty sure it actually increases drag.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by ottoyu34

Pretty sure it actually increases drag.

Not according to Toyobaru's stated figures. They say it decreases drag by .01.

[MaximeT]

Originally Posted by Pat

Not according to Toyobaru's stated figures. They say it decreases drag by .01.

I think that's combined with the JDM/Euro under car aero.

[ZionsWrath]

Was doing some pre track maintenance today and found a loose brake line . Hard line to braided line connection.

Not sure how it could come loose and last time I went anywhere near them was 2 years ago. Found it by chance because I saw a stray drip.

Any idea how this could happen? Don't want it to happen again ...

[jjaisli]

@CSG_Mike

OK, so I just came back from my first track event of the year up at Watkins Glen. I went from (last year) Eibach springs, 215/45/17 Dunlop ZII and Hawk HP+ pads to 235/40/17 Toyo RA1s, Bilstein B16s, adjustable rear control arms and a StopTech BBK on the front.

I found that last year I was beginning to overheat the tires after more than 10-15 minutes, I was chewing up the outsides and I wasn't getting brake fade per se, but I was smoking hot coming off hot laps. And in general I just felt I was ready for more grip.

My shop recommended -2.4 camber f/r to start and they suggested I go full hard on the dampening and work backwards from there. It didn't exactly work out that way. Day one was borderline monsoon conditions until the late morning so I stayed out on my S-04s until the last hour of the day and was about 3-4 clicks from full hard both f/r. There was standing water and torrents just pouring across the track in many places.

Day two started out foggy, damp and overcast, and the temperature never went above 48~49*F, although it didn't rain. It was an open track event so I thought I had plenty of time but it seemed like every time I was ready to go out, somebody was dropping fluids or binning the car or the fog was rolling in. At least 4 times I left the gararge only to stare at a red flag before I even entered the pitlane. And just getting used to the track again and having much faster cars coming through with no point-bye took a bit of getting used to. So it was hard to string decent laps together. I really could have used an extra day to put things together.

I told my shop I didn't want an oversteering car. I need confidence in the rear end. But my overall impression was that I was getting a LOT of understeer, more than I had on my setup last year. I was kind of hoping for something a bit more neutral.

The tires are new, just the one heat cycle (3 moderate laps the prior afternoon) I started day two, one click from full hard on the dampening. I came off the track during my first session with pressures near 40 psi (less in the right rear). I immediately took 3 psi out all around. Next session, same experience. The shop recommended I soften the front end one click to make it a bit more compliant and decrease pressures another 2 psi as I was still coming off the track at around 37.5 psi.

The next time I went out I thought the front was a bit 'loose'. It wandered a bit under hard braking and it felt a bit disconnected (sort of like the front and rear weren't really working together) and I didn't like the way it felt, especially during left and right transitions like the bus stop chicane. I left pressures what they were (around 36.5 hot) and bumped the dampening up one notch, back to where it was.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUe3HPz9C7o"]Watkins Glen with Provoledo - YouTube[/ame]

You can hear it pretty clearly around the 0:10 mark.

Around the carousel, I'm taking an early apex (around 0:55) becasue taking my normal line I just found it tough to get the car down to the apex unless I really scrubbed off a lot of speed.

But I'm really struggling at T7 (1:20) and again at T8 (1:42). There at the heel, I couldn't even get the car turned in to the apex. I opened up but at that point I had already scrubbed off a lot speed.

T9 was tough but it is also an off camber corner so I'm used to getting understeer there. I think everybody does.

And T11 of course (a place you really DON'T want understeer for obvious reasons) around 2:15.

Maybe I was just expecting too much, expecting too much grip? Temperatures were pretty chilly. And I realize of course that B16s aren't the ideal solution but it is still a street driven car.

Any suggestions which way to go with this setup to make it a bit more neutral?

[CSG Mike]

I can see terminal understeer in your video.

Try an adjustable rear sway bar, and play with the settings to dial in less understeer/more oversteer to taste.

Use a pyrometer to determine tire pressures and alignment.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I can see terminal understeer in your video.

Try an adjustable rear sway bar, and play with the settings to dial in less understeer/more oversteer to taste.

Use a pyrometer to determine tire pressures and alignment.

Only rear? FWIW, I am running the stock sway bars. any particular suggestion?

Ironically, a friend did have a pyrometer but it was so cold and I kept having to drive through standing water in the paddock to come around the garages that I didn't bother with it as I didn't think I'd get proper readings. I should have made more of an effort.

And I know, even temperatures across the surface is more important but what should I be aiming at for hot pressures with an RA1, 235/40? Is 36-37 too high?

Thanks again Mike!

[strat61caster]

Chase alignment first before buying parts.

Front and rear suspensions are entirely different designs with entirely different camber curves, you'll be doing jacked up stuff to balance grip levels if you keep even camber front and rear, this ain't no Miata.

Since it sounds like you're not going to be changing between track/street alignment, reducing rear camber will remove some rear grip but help the car feel balanced while preserving tire wear. If speed is the priority increase front camber to find some front end grip, most end up over -3 degrees.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Chase alignment first before buying parts.

Front and rear suspensions are entirely different designs with entirely different camber curves, you'll be doing jacked up stuff to balance grip levels if you keep even camber front and rear, this ain't no Miata.

Since it sounds like you're not going to be changing between track/street alignment, reducing rear camber will remove some rear grip but help the car feel balanced while preserving tire wear. If speed is the priority increase front camber to find some front end grip, most end up over -3 degrees.

Yeah I don't have camber plates. So I was reluctant to go too aggressive up front. So maybe go up to -2.8 front and down to -1.8 rear and see how it goes? (And yeah, I know, go look at the data and stop guessing). But clearly what I'm running isn't working. And my next two events are both far away and back to back. So I'd at least like to make an incremental change in the right direction.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Yeah I don't have camber plates. So I was reluctant to go too aggressive up front. So maybe go up to -2.8 front and down to -1.8 rear and see how it goes? (And yeah, I know, go look at the data and stop guessing). But clearly what I'm running isn't working. And my next two events are both far away and back to back. So I'd at least like to make an incremental change in the right direction.

imho that's the right direction, tons of variables will determine if that's too much, not enough, or spot on, tires, track details, your driving style, etc.

Odds are you'll be leaving grip on the table for the rears in favor of balance and potentially tire wear and still be wanting more camber up front based on what I've experienced in relation to those numbers.

[jjaisli]

OK--thank you both! I'll have the car back at the shop on Thursday and will work in this direction.

(VIR on June 6-7 and Road Atlanta on June 11-12)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Only rear? FWIW, I am running the stock sway bars. any particular suggestion?

Ironically, a friend did have a pyrometer but it was so cold and I kept having to drive through standing water in the paddock to come around the garages that I didn't bother with it as I didn't think I'd get proper readings. I should have made more of an effort.

And I know, even temperatures across the surface is more important but what should I be aiming at for hot pressures with an RA1, 235/40? Is 36-37 too high?

Thanks again Mike!

Pyrometers read core temperatures, not surface. While not perfect, water cools evenly, so even relative reading are useful.

Yes, only rear.