Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ShadowTS

Can you also suggest a tire a step lower (Max Perf) that will survive some track events (newbie, not pro driver), excluding Michelin PSS?

Bridgestone RE760?

[ducky106]

Got a few questions:
-How much would I benefit from an oil separator?
-Would you recommend running a 5w20 race oil for just the track weekends or would it be better to stick with street oil? If street oil should I go with a thicker weight or the recommended 0w20?
- I'm running on the track with the priority of getting good car control, I've noticed you've said don't worry about lap times and turn off TC/VSC for people with that goal, but would something like Aim Solo to look at the line I'm taking be beneficial or not?

I'm using the FRS as a weekend warrior, running a stock setup except for upgraded brakes and will be adding a oil cooler/regulator (the one that subaru's forester and STI comes stock with).

I'm looking to just do mods that will help the car deal with the wear from tracking, and know I won't be able to prevent all the wear. But any recommendations to help the car deal with the track that I might be missing would be helpful.

Thanks

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by ducky106

Got a few questions:
-How much would I benefit from an oil separator?
-Would you recommend running a 5w20 race oil for just the track weekends or would it be better to stick with street oil? If street oil should I go with a thicker weight or the recommended 0w20?
- I'm running on the track with the priority of getting good car control, I've noticed you've said don't worry about lap times and turn off TC/VSC for people with that goal, but would something like Aim Solo to look at the line I'm taking be beneficial or not?

I'm using the FRS as a weekend warrior, running a stock setup except for upgraded brakes and will be adding a oil cooler/regulator (the one that subaru's forester and STI comes stock with).

I'm looking to just do mods that will help the car deal with the wear from tracking, and know I won't be able to prevent all the wear. But any recommendations to help the car deal with the track that I might be missing would be helpful.

Thanks

In our opinion if you are tracking on a semi regular basis you will want more than the forester/wrx oil-coolant heat exchanger. On our stock motor BRZ we saw temps at 270-280 in the summer on track. With the OEM WRX cooler we managed to move them down to 260-265. Now we run the Perrin/Setrab unit and see 210-230 on track.

Crawford AOS is a great piece and inexpensive insurance without the issue of a catch can and remembering to empty it.

Aim Solo DL is a great tool and can double as a gauge setup or work along side the P3 Cars gauge setup. You can share data and get pointers.

For oil we run Motul 300v 5w30 on track and as a summer/warm climate oil and alternate with 0w20 Motul 8100 with 3000-5000 mile intervals.

We can help set you up with any and all of these products and have an intro offer on the AIM Solo products right now as well.

Mike

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by ducky106

Got a few questions:
-How much would I benefit from an oil separator?
-Would you recommend running a 5w20 race oil for just the track weekends or would it be better to stick with street oil? If street oil should I go with a thicker weight or the recommended 0w20?
- I'm running on the track with the priority of getting good car control, I've noticed you've said don't worry about lap times and turn off TC/VSC for people with that goal, but would something like Aim Solo to look at the line I'm taking be beneficial or not?

I'm using the FRS as a weekend warrior, running a stock setup except for upgraded brakes and will be adding a oil cooler/regulator (the one that subaru's forester and STI comes stock with).

I'm looking to just do mods that will help the car deal with the wear from tracking, and know I won't be able to prevent all the wear. But any recommendations to help the car deal with the track that I might be missing would be helpful.

Thanks

When I put a catch can on my car it felt like I got a small boost (on CA91 gas), sort of like a slightly higher octane gas. Not a huge difference but it is there. I suspect if you are running 93 you might not notice the difference.

Going to a 5w-20 would yield little if any benefit on track while detrimenting your cold start wear. It is the second number that will help when the car is running hot while the first is about thickness at cooler temperatures.
Race oils tend to be on the thicker side of the spectrum of weights allowed for a spec while energy conserving (what alot of the street oils are and what our cars are supposed to have) will be on the thinner side. Going with a race oil should do better at high temperatures compared to an energy conserving oil of the same weight while reducing your fuel economy and power slightly (more energy used pumping the oil). Theoretically race oils should also hold up better under track temperatures while having a greater film strength, but in general if you are going to be going to the track on a regular basis you want an oil cooler so things stay more nominal.
Note that changing oil type may affect your warranty coverage. Adding a oil cooler almost certainly will affect your warranty coverage and could in theory detriment your engine's life by reducing oil pressure (oil coolers produce a pressure drop). I haven't heard of any oil coolers being linked to this but it is possible.

[the new guy]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

Aim Solo DL is a great tool and can double as a gauge setup or work along side the P3 Cars gauge setup. You can share data and get pointers.



For oil we run Motul 300v 5w30 on track and as a summer/warm climate oil and alternate with 0w20 Motul 8100 with 3000-5000 mile intervals.



Mike

How are you sharing data between the two? Using one of the aux sensors on the p3 gauge or an OBD splitter?

At what ambient temps do you guys recommend the switch to 5W-30? So far I've been switching to Redline 0W-20 prior to the track day and then driving it to 3k miles before switching back to OEM for daily driving. My last track day I was creeping up to 250-255 and the summer FL heat will be here soon

Thanks for your help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by the new guy

How are you sharing data between the two? Using one of the aux sensors on the p3 gauge or an OBD splitter?

At what ambient temps do you guys recommend the switch to 5W-30? So far I've been switching to Redline 0W-20 prior to the track day and then driving it to 3k miles before switching back to OEM for daily driving. My last track day I was creeping up to 250-255 and the summer FL heat will be here soon

Thanks for your help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We plan to use an OBDII Splitter as both the P3 and Solo DL use the inputs from the engine. We are also planning on installing an analog Oil pressure sensor for the P3 too.

Any ambient temps that you see in FL the 5w30 should be fine except if you aren't tracking it in Dec-Feb. My Project BRZ resided in So-Flo this winter with 300V 5w30 in it as we did 2 track days at Homestead and it will be returning next week up here for the summer track season.

-mike

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

Note that changing oil type may affect your warranty coverage. Adding a oil cooler almost certainly will affect your warranty coverage and could in theory detriment your engine's life by reducing oil pressure (oil coolers produce a pressure drop). I haven't heard of any oil coolers being linked to this but it is possible.

This is a TRACK section, so anything we do even with a completely stock car here *CAN* and *WILL* effect your warranty coverage if we are getting technical.

-mike

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

Going to a 5w-20 would yield little if any benefit on track while detrimenting your cold start wear. It is the second number that will help when the car is running hot while the first is about thickness at cooler temperatures.

In TN, I wouldn't even be worried about cold start wear. For the cold cranking viscosity test, a 0W is tested at -35C for and a 5W is tested at -30C.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/coldcrank.htm

One advantage that a 5W will have over a 0W within the same grade is that it is a more stable oil since it will contain less viscosity modifers (and more stable oil pressure as the oil is used). If you compare Red Line, their 0W oils contain some viscosity modifiers while their 5W oils contain none.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

This is a TRACK section, so anything we do even with a completely stock car here *CAN* and *WILL* effect your warranty coverage if we are getting technical.

-mike

Anytime I give advice about modifying that relates to the engine I like to give that warning. You never know who that person will be that doesn't think things through and then screams bloody murder because something goes wrong.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

In TN, I wouldn't even be worried about cold start wear. For the cold cranking viscosity test, a 0W is tested at -35C for and a 5W is tested at -30C.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/coldcrank.htm

One advantage that a 5W will have over a 0W within the same grade is that it is a more stable oil since it will contain less viscosity modifers (and more stable oil pressure as the oil is used). If you compare Red Line, their 0W oils contain some viscosity modifiers while their 5W oils contain none.

It is true that really cold weather is really hard on starting engines, but even ambient temperatures are rough when starting. Thicker oil takes more time to work into all the little tight places in an engine (which is why oil pressure is at the bypass pressure right after start, it isn't flowing through the parts very well yet). a 0w vs 5w probably won't have that much difference but statistically the 0w engine should have lower bearing wear.

In terms of the viscosity modifiers, if you are seeing thermal breakdown of your oil then you are in trouble no matter if you are using a 0w or 5w. Frankly, trying to deal with temperatures high enough to substantially degrade a race oil's viscosity modifiers by changing oils winter cranking viscosity is like putting a band aide on a dismembered limb; yes, you might want a band aide at some point but you really need to deal with the greater issue (ie you need an oil cooler)! At the temperatures where a race oil's viscosity modifiers starts to rapidly degrade you are probably seeing extremely thin oil and causing rapid damage to the engine. Our cars run the oil hot but modern oils are designed to deal with that for short periods of time. These are street cars after all and most of the use they will see will be normal street use with a burst of track time (compared to a race engine which sees only extreme use and is properly warmed up every time, etc.).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by the new guy

How are you sharing data between the two? Using one of the aux sensors on the p3 gauge or an OBD splitter?

At what ambient temps do you guys recommend the switch to 5W-30? So far I've been switching to Redline 0W-20 prior to the track day and then driving it to 3k miles before switching back to OEM for daily driving. My last track day I was creeping up to 250-255 and the summer FL heat will be here soon

Thanks for your help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A splitter did not function in our experience.

It sounds like you need an oil cooler, more than changing oil weights. Changing oil weights is a band-aid. The oil cooler is the real solution.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ducky106

Got a few questions:
-How much would I benefit from an oil separator?
-Would you recommend running a 5w20 race oil for just the track weekends or would it be better to stick with street oil? If street oil should I go with a thicker weight or the recommended 0w20?
- I'm running on the track with the priority of getting good car control, I've noticed you've said don't worry about lap times and turn off TC/VSC for people with that goal, but would something like Aim Solo to look at the line I'm taking be beneficial or not?

I'm using the FRS as a weekend warrior, running a stock setup except for upgraded brakes and will be adding a oil cooler/regulator (the one that subaru's forester and STI comes stock with).

I'm looking to just do mods that will help the car deal with the wear from tracking, and know I won't be able to prevent all the wear. But any recommendations to help the car deal with the track that I might be missing would be helpful.

Thanks

If you're not boosted, an AOS is not really a priority.

A quality race oil will work just fine on the street. Worry more about getting proper cooling for your oil, rather than the oil itself. Any quality full synthetic will get the job done with a proper change interval.

A full data acquisition system will allow you to pinpoint exactly where/how you can improve, and also give you a way to catch errors you would otherwise not recognize. The Solo DL allows for you to see exactly what your driving inputs are (gas, brake, steering), and you can see the result of each input or combination of inputs (lateral g, longitudinal g, yaw rate, speed, acceleration, etc.)

CSG also offers a remote data analysis service if you need your logs analyzed for you.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

In TN, I wouldn't even be worried about cold start wear. For the cold cranking viscosity test, a 0W is tested at -35C for and a 5W is tested at -30C.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/coldcrank.htm

One advantage that a 5W will have over a 0W within the same grade is that it is a more stable oil since it will contain less viscosity modifers (and more stable oil pressure as the oil is used). If you compare Red Line, their 0W oils contain some viscosity modifiers while their 5W oils contain none.

I wouldn't say that's true for EVERY line of oils...

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I wouldn't say that's true for EVERY line of oils...

True in regards to viscosity modifiers since each oil is blended differently and companies don't always give you very much info. Motul and Red Line are good at providing more details than most companies if you call or email them. Red Line usually does recommend the lowest viscosity in the manual, but you can always email them and ask if their 5W20 has any advantages over their 0W20.

The other big advantage of a 5W20, IMO, is less NOACK volatility (evaporation) than the same brand 0W20. It's hard to find NOACK from some brands, but Red Line, Amsoil, and Pennzoil list theirs.

Red Line 5W20
NOACK 8%
High Temp High Shear 3.0

Red Line 0W20
NOACK 9%
HTHS 2.9

Amsoil SS 5W20
NOACK 6.3
HTHS 2.7

Amsoil SS 0W20
NOACK 10%
HTHS 2.7

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W20
NOACK 10.5%
HTHS N/A

PUP 0W20
NOACK 12.5%
HTHS N/A

Note that the maximum NOACK volatility allowed for an API/ILSAC certified oil is 15% so you can see most of these are well under the maximum (PUP 0W20 is up there though), with the 5W-20's being best. For comparison the maximum NOACK to meet the Mercedes oil spec is 10%. NOACK is measured at 482F/350C so it's intended to test oil at the extreme temps that some parts of an engine could see.

At the track, I'd definitely take a lower NOACK over a higher one. Probably less of a factor though if you're talking strictly race/street oils like Red Line or Motul 300V those since their numbers are so close and much lower than pure street oils.