Has anyone had a warranty claim denied? Seized engine! Pics of teardown added 6/5

[ayau]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

David, I'm just curious. The specific wording of the TSB from Toyota South Africa mentions, and I quote:

It then includes a graph that highlights only shifts from 3->4, 4->5 & 5->6, not specifically stating but certainly alluding that shifts from 1st to 2nd and from 2nd to 3rd are not an issue. From your experience, do you believe this problem occurs during rapid gear shifts within 0.6 secs and on-off-on WOT applications, regardless of which gear? I honestly don't know if the ECU accounts or adjusting the timing according to what gear you're in. Or were. But I think it is (or at least could be) a key distinction.

For the record, I'm still trying to get a straight answer from my service tech if the wording on the same TSB is correct and cars with post January 21st build dates no longer have this issue.

From my understanding, they didn't list shifts from 1->2 and 2->3 being problematic because the rpms fall below 5,200 RPM.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

The most frustrating part is that eventually this type of failure will have to be TSB'ed by Toyota and Subaru which will in the long run prove you right. Unfortunately they won't go back and credit you for a new motor. We as a community will likely see justice, you as an individual owner likely wont.

I thought Subaru hasn't fixed the ringland issue on the WRX STi. If the percentage affected is low, I wouldn't be surprised Subaru/Toyota not announcing a TSB. So far, it seems like only a very very small percentage of people are affected by this.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Now if Toyota decided to step up and really back the community, they will be loved and hailed as king of the automotive world. Subaru did not care for their Impreza community, they will likely not care for the BRZ community.

The sad part is that the track enthusiasts only make up a very small percentage of the ft86 cars. These cars will still continue to sell like hot cakes, but the track rats will stick to their trusty Miatas/S2000s.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by ayau

The sad part is that the track enthusiasts only make up a very small percentage of the ft86 cars. These cars will still continue to sell like hot cakes, but the track rats will stick to their trusty Miatas/S2000s.

Subaru will always tailor the cars to the general market.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Subaru will always tailor the cars to the general market.

That only makes sense for any car company. The percentage of owners who will actually track or even drive their cars at the limit for extended periods of time is tiny. That even goes for companies like Porsche, Ferrari or BMW. Why would any company spend the money to over engineer their cars just in case they were tracked? They won't, especially if it is a sub $50K car. I am not defending Subaru but rather pointing out that they are no different from any other major manufacturer.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Rampage

That only makes sense for any car company. The percentage of owners who will actually track or even drive their cars at the limit for extended periods of time is tiny. That even goes for companies like Porsche, Ferrari or BMW. Why would any company spend the money to over engineer their cars just in case they were tracked? They won't, especially if it is a sub $50K car. I am not defending Subaru but rather pointing out that they are no different from any other major manufacturer.

Ferrari and Porsche have HUGE track clientele...

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Ferrari and Porsche have HUGE track clientele...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=709

Porsche has the same disclaimer (and even goes as far to single out events sanctioned by themselves as cause for voided warranty).

-alex

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mav1178

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=709

Porsche has the same disclaimer (and even goes as far to single out events sanctioned by themselves as cause for voided warranty).

-alex

May not =/= will not.

But, I'm not talking about Porsche guys that track GT3s... or Ferrari guys that track a 458.

Rather, CUPs and Challenges.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Ferrari and Porsche have HUGE track clientele...

They may have a lot of people that track their cars but I am betting they have a lot more than do not. Also a lot of Porsche and Ferrari cars that are tracked are older models that have been out of warranty. And as I stated above the cars do not sell for less than $50K. They sell for a premium price and therefore can be over engineered to some extent. They could also afford to offer a better warranty on those premium priced cars. I wonder how Porsche views tracking the base model Boxster? Probably about the same way Subaru views tracking the BRZ.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Rampage

They may have a lot of people that track their cars but I am betting they have a lot more than do not. Also a lot of Porsche and Ferrari cars that are tracked are older models that have been out of warranty. And as I stated above the cars do not sell for less than $50K. They sell for a premium price and therefore can be over engineered to some extent. They could also afford to offer a better warranty on those premium priced cars. I wonder how Porsche views tracking the base model Boxster? Probably about the same way Subaru views tracking the BRZ.

Well there's a reason why people continue to track Miatas, Civics, and S2000s. They are the most reliable cars out there. Those cars fail in ways that Subaru could only dream of right now. The only time someone really blows an engine is mostly due to mis-shifting and neglecting maintenance. Most track guys maintain their cars many times better than the average car owner. It's just the nature of scope. If you were to place safety factors on engineering design, Civics/Integras/S2000s and Miatas would have a minimum safety factor of 3.5. Subaru decided to make the powertrain and drivetrain to work at an average of 1.25. Works for most, but when put into performance mode, it can't take anymore. This number scale is just a ballpark scale.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Rampage

They may have a lot of people that track their cars but I am betting they have a lot more than do not. Also a lot of Porsche and Ferrari cars that are tracked are older models that have been out of warranty. And as I stated above the cars do not sell for less than $50K. They sell for a premium price and therefore can be over engineered to some extent. They could also afford to offer a better warranty on those premium priced cars. I wonder how Porsche views tracking the base model Boxster? Probably about the same way Subaru views tracking the BRZ.

There's a whole different world of tracking outside of what you see with POC/PCA/SCCA/NASA...

Originally Posted by Rampage

Probably about the same way Subaru views tracking the STI.

FTFY

[AznBRZer]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Well there's a reason why people continue to track Miatas, Civics, and S2000s. They are the most reliable cars out there. Those cars fail in ways that Subaru could only dream of right now. The only time someone really blows an engine is mostly due to mis-shifting and neglecting maintenance. Most track guys maintain their cars many times better than the average car owner. It's just the nature of scope. If you were to place safety factors on engineering design, Civics/Integras/S2000s and Miatas would have a minimum safety factor of 3.5. Subaru decided to make the powertrain and drivetrain to work at an average of 1.25. Works for most, but when put into performance mode, it can't take anymore. This number scale is just a ballpark scale.

One of these days, I'll own an S2000. It MUST be done.

[clayrush]

A company can say they will void a warranty because you drank a soda in your car. It does not make it right or necessarily legal.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by clayrush

A company can say they will void a warranty because you drank a soda in your car. It does not make it right or necessarily legal.

Right and legal are of course two totally different things. Legal is whatever their lawyers write in the contract.

I agree with Dave about the safety factors. Honda way over designs its motors. I don't think Subaru does. I know a lot of Subaru guys who "race" their cars on the track and they flog the crap out of their cars. But go on a run with the Honda Challenge guys, it is a totally different story.